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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Anik R on February 01, 2011, 06:26:36 PM

Title: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker? ID = Stingl
Post by: Anik R on February 01, 2011, 06:26:36 PM
Hello,

Can anyone help me identify the maker of this 12-sided art-deco style vase?  It's massive (much bigger than I realised when I bet on it  :spls:) --  19,5cm high and a whopping 15,5cm wide at the top.  The base is flat, with considerable wear, but no maker's mark. It weighs over 1,6 kg,

It's not what I usually buy, but I've been slightly 'betting' happy lately.   :-X  

Thank you for looking -- all help and comments are greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Lustrousstone on February 01, 2011, 06:35:23 PM
Is it cut or pressed?
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 01, 2011, 06:43:10 PM
Ah, Christine, asking me these difficult technical questions... ;)

I believe it's cut.  I can't find any seams, plus, there are very faint 'swirl' marks going around the tapered part of the vase.
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: antiquerose123 on February 01, 2011, 07:34:12 PM
???

Has some resemblance ????? to Moser/Hoffman in a sense (maybe) (sort of) - as to area of location (maybe)...................but the last level of your vase has a smaller ledge than this one ----- So this is merely a suggestion


http://www.trocadero.com/gideonantiques/items/487563/item487563store.html (http://www.trocadero.com/gideonantiques/items/487563/item487563store.html)

 :ooh:  whoops posted wrong Link  :thud: corrected now...
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 01, 2011, 08:29:25 PM
Thank you, Rose, but that's not the same vase.  My vase, only smaller, can be seen here http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2164246 though I don't think the attribution is correct.  Apparently, all Moser pieces have got a 'brand mark'.  :huh:

The search continues...
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: dirk. on February 01, 2011, 08:48:26 PM
I´ve seen similar vases with the Moser logo, but forgot the details: number of facets etc. It seems
likely that several companies made more or less simlar designs. Riedel might be another candidate?
There´s also a related design on Oliver´s Hessenglas site.
http://www.kristallglas-oberursel.net/Text/ProdukteHessenglas_Vasen.html
http://www.kristallglas-oberursel.net/Bilder/Hessenglas/Produkte/Vasen/IMG_5904a.jpg
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 02, 2011, 04:53:55 AM
Thank you, Dirk... The Hessenglas one is, as you say, 'related' but still quite different -- the glass is much thicker than in my piece.  I will look into Riedel.  Thank you, again!  :)
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Ivo on February 02, 2011, 07:01:46 AM
Try Desna, it seems to be related to the "four layers" vase from Dobronin Glasworks which they still produce.
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: antiquerose123 on February 02, 2011, 07:32:50 AM
Try Desna, it seems to be related to the "four layers" vase from Dobronin Glasworks which they still produce.

I have NO clue at all -- but I keep finding the 4 layer (bottom) with a thicker width (or equal) size.......the only one that I have found with a *narrower* bottom edge (like yours ) is this one.  http://www.trocadero.com/bradford/items/921239/item921239store.html (http://www.trocadero.com/bradford/items/921239/item921239store.html)

Now I know the shape is different (and colors) -- but I was just looking at the 4th bottom layer since I note that yours is also the least widest there.......but I have no clue at all......and know nothing about those types of glass in the link provided either.

Merely looking towards the bottom narrower layer --  :thud: 



I will hide now  :ooh:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 02, 2011, 02:53:38 PM
Thank you for the responses...  now I need some time to look at the suggestions and do some research.

I'll be back, either a little more knowledgable, or still completely clueless.  :)
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 03, 2011, 05:06:58 PM
I've taken a look at Desna, and though the vase(s) in the third row down (here: http://www.preciosaornela.com/desna-glass_cz/www/products-additional_collection.php) does hold some similarities to mine, it's not exactly a match.  As for Riedel, I still haven't been able to find much information, but I'll continue to look.

In the meantime, I wrote to Moser customer service (I figured it was worth a shot  ;)) and got this 'strange' reply:  "...Each Moser glass piece is always signed on the bottom with a Moser brand mark. Your glass items seem to be made in the glassworks in Železný Brod in North Bohemia as the style of manufacturing correspond to their production."

:huh: :huh: :huh:


Funnily, I got exactly the same reply concerning my small mistletoe vase.
Somewhere, someone (besides me) is 'slightly' confused.
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: antiquerose123 on February 03, 2011, 08:33:55 PM
?????????  :huh:

Werkstatte ???????
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Mike M on February 04, 2011, 12:36:33 AM
Hi

I've always been a little worried by the Moser people - although Moser nearly always signed there were definite brief periods when they did not sign.

One such period was when they continued making Weiner Werkstatte (WW) design pieces after WW had folded. Having said that I don't think this is Moser. It is though, what some people would call in the 'Vienna Cut' style - a polite way of saying 'following' the WW look and the Hoffman's designs -The names you've been offered all made glass in this style.

So did Kulka and even Theresienthal and probably many more -sorry to add to your list.

cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: antiquerose123 on February 04, 2011, 12:52:17 AM

Has some resemblance ????? to Moser/Hoffman in a sense (maybe) (sort of) - as to area of location (maybe)..................
http://www.trocadero.com/gideonantiques/items/487563/item487563store.html (http://www.trocadero.com/gideonantiques/items/487563/item487563store.html)


?????????  :huh:
Werkstatte ???????


Glad to see Mike, that you are kinda thinking along the same lines as Me -- LOL -- but I have been known the think  :ho: when it comes to glass, as i like a good mystery too...

One such period was when they continued making Weiner Werkstatte (WW) design pieces after WW had folded. Having said that I don't think this is Moser. It is though, what some people would call in the 'Vienna Cut' style - a polite way of saying 'following' the WW look and the Hoffman's designs -The names you've been offered all made glass in this style.
Mike

 ;)
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 04, 2011, 05:39:21 AM
I appreciate your input, Mike.  Thank you.

I've looked at all the catalogues available on the glas-musterbuch site, hoping that perhaps my vase was somewhere among its pages.  No joy.  The closest designs I've seen to mine were in the Nordbohmische Glasraffinerie catalogue, though my use of 'close' should, in this case, be taken lightly.

I'll look into Desna again, and Riedel, and research the additional names I've been suggested.


Thank you, all, for your help.  :)
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 05, 2011, 02:38:55 PM
Just one little thing...

When the Moser people suggested my vase could have come from ZBS, I thought they were being ridiculous -- ZBS and this type of vase just didn't go together in my mind.  I was being ignorant as ZBS did produce vases of this 'type'.

I still don't have a clue as to the maker of my piece, but luckily, I've got a whole lifetime to find out.  :)  My search continues...




 
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 06, 2011, 05:39:18 PM
I know Moser claims this vase is not theirs, but I thought I'd share this link... :-\     http://www.gunther-wagner.com/glas/?Formglas:Vasen


Ah, searching, searching, searching...

Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: antiquerose123 on February 06, 2011, 06:03:01 PM
I know Moser claims this vase is not theirs, but I thought I'd share this link... :-\     http://www.gunther-wagner.com/glas/?Formglas:Vasen

Ah, searching, searching, searching...

I agree with that link that it (should) be a Match. Anik!!!!!!  Totally !!!!

We have said from the beginning of this post that we see a Moser connection -- and to me -- that is an Exact Same Vase as yours Anik.  I totally agree with you.  It is a Match in my eyes, IMHO....

So then why does Moser say it is not.......

I am confused here!!!

In my opinion, Anik has the direct match, and we have been pointing this out since the beginning of this post.  What do others have to say here....
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 06, 2011, 06:36:31 PM
Ah, Rose, I think you've misunderstood my intentions...  I posted the link above just to show that there is a common, perhaps mistaken, belief that this vase was produced by Moser.  But just because several people have the same unmarked vase, and have attributed the piece to that particular glassworks, it does not mean it is.

There are so many glassworks that could have produced this vase -- it might be a while before we find which, indeed, made it.  :usd:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: antiquerose123 on February 06, 2011, 06:41:43 PM
Ah, Rose, I think you've misunderstood my intentions...  I posted the link above just to show that there is a common, perhaps mistaken, belief that this vase was produced by Moser.  But just because several people have the same unmarked vase, and have attributed the piece to that particular glassworks, it does not mean it is.

There are so many glassworks that could have produced this vase -- it might be a while before we find which, indeed, made it.  :usd:

Hi there -- Sure I realize there is no mark on the one that you posted (or direct attribution) -- but I did say the Photo you posted, and yours do look like a direct match (going by the design, the shape, the grooves) IMHO, they look the same. 

Sure we have found no direct marked one yet, for total, concise attribution.......but this is very interesting post, and topic... :thup:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Ivo on February 07, 2011, 09:37:16 PM
or Afors from circa 1940, of course.
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 09, 2011, 05:37:17 AM
Ivo, thank you for your help...  I've been looking into Afors, but to be honest, I haven't been able to come up with very much information.  (And it doesn't help that when I google 'Afors', the search engine keeps asking me if perhaps I meant 'Afros'... ::).)  Even the GMB has rather limited information about the glassworks.

May I ask why Afors sprung to mind?  Have you seen vases similar to mine that were produced by them?  I appreciate your help... and an ever-so-delicate shove in the right direction.  :kissy:

Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Ivo on February 09, 2011, 08:10:03 AM
In a similar thread some time ago in the Swedish Precis-en-San forum I suggested Desna due to the technical similarity of combined moulded concave ribs and panel cutting - and it turned out to be from Afors circa 1930. As always, there is never one company which designs, makes and markets one product - there are always lookalikes. Call it the spirit of the times. Some companies have survived for years by looking at the competition and copying what they like and supplying the hot designs of the moment to their own market.
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on February 09, 2011, 09:16:50 AM
I see...  thank you for taking the time to explain. :)

I suppose that for the time being (until a labelled example pops up somewhere in the world), I will have to satisfy myself with an exact maker unknown...  but that's alright.  No matter what, I like the vase and I like the colour.  And it looks just fine with my other amber pieces.

 :hi:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: dirk. on April 19, 2011, 06:48:22 AM
We´re getting closer to at least one maker of these...  :)
ebay (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400210297860&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.de%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D400210297860%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1)
Anyone got the book (Hartmann´s), time and will to look it up? Could it be Stölzle??
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on April 19, 2011, 04:50:54 PM
Dirk, thank you so much for remembering my vase  :kissy:.

Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: pamela on April 30, 2011, 03:55:52 PM
 :hi: Anik!
Dirk is here today and we had a look into Carolus Hartmann Glasmarkenlexikon:

The FS  label of this  vase (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400210297860&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.de%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D400210297860%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1)
is
FRANZ STINGL Steinschönau Bohemia since 1906

We hope this helps  :t: :sm: :sm: :t:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on May 01, 2011, 06:20:21 PM
Pamela and Dirk, my sincerest thanks to the both of you!  :kissy: :kissy:

Just a little question...  is Franz Stingl the name of the designer, or is it a glassworks?  Please forgive my ignorance. :-[

Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: pamela on May 01, 2011, 07:28:31 PM
 :hi: Anik,
no further information available from Hartmann book, but googled and found this in:

www.archive.org   University of Toronto Library   'Die Kunst Monatshefte'

(no images, text only)

quote
FACHSCHULE FÜR GLASIN-
DUSTRIE, STEINSCHÖNAU



GESCHLIFFENE PRUNKGEFÄSZE AUS KRISTALLGLAS
ENTWURF: A. BECKERT, AUSFÜHR.: LEHRER KRAUSE
Vertrieb: Franz Stingl, Steinschönau
unquote

This translates Stingl was / is distributor.

 :-*



Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on May 01, 2011, 08:12:35 PM
Pamela, thank you for your patience.  (When I googled 'Franz Stigl', I kept coming up with results about 'Franz Stagl').

But now I know that Steinschonau is Kamenický Šenov.  I'm so clever...   ::)

 :kissy:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: pamela on July 17, 2011, 08:44:10 PM
 :hi: Anik

While scanning further catalogues for musterbuch.de, found your vase finally and Stingl is named as glassworks (french 'usine')

DIA stands for Deutscher Innen- und Aussenhandel Glas-Keramik, (East-German Import-Export Organization) catalogue print dated 1952 and the price-list is in US $ !
Yours is # 452 - see yellow mark

 :t:


Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on July 18, 2011, 03:35:32 AM
Pamela, you are amazing!!!  :kissy: :kissy: :kissy:     THANK YOU!
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: dirk. on July 18, 2011, 03:59:47 AM
Seconded! You´re a star!  :sun:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: pamela on July 18, 2011, 11:07:59 AM
For later reference have asked and got permission:

here's the FS labelled vase
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: dirk. on July 18, 2011, 03:48:42 PM
I revise my earlier comment... You´re a galaxy indeed!  ;D  :hiclp:
Title: Re: Massive amber art-deco style vase -- maker?
Post by: Anik R on July 18, 2011, 07:55:23 PM
Dirk, now how the heck am I supposed to beat that comment? -- you big, 'ol suck-up.(http://serve.mysmiley.net/sad/sad0018.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)

So Pamela, I shall seal what Dirk said with a big kiss...  (http://serve.mysmiley.net/love/love0039.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)

Thank you ssssooooooo much for all your help!