Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: AJLUNN1965 on March 18, 2011, 11:06:34 PM
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Hello....i have recently purchased this lovely vase by Flavio Poli....i believe??? Its in lovely condition but has about 40 years of dust in it!! Ive tried to clean it but due to the narrowness of the neck its been difficult!!! Any ideas or techniques?? would appreciate any ideas??
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Hi, I'm not sure but I think I've read somewhere previously on this board of copper balls or maybe lead shot?, couldn't say if this is the best way tho for cleaning this vase. sure someone will advise on the best method.
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A search of the Board using "cleaning" as the keyword will find many past threads with suggestions for cleaning a variety of glass items.
A couple that cover some ideas (with links to other threads also) are:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,32957.msg178497.html#msg178497
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,7724.msg65230.html#msg65230
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Hi, if not lime scale...I would suggest, plastic bb gun balls, cheap as and will remove all dust, just shake around with minimal water. Have used many times with great results.
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Hi there, Hydrochloric acid is a good glass cleaner. It is sold as Muriatic acid (33% Hydrochloric) at hardware stores. It is dangerous stuff, be careful...wear eye gear and gloves. Make a solution of about 3 gallons of water and a box of baking soda as a stop to neutralize the acid after letting it sit a while. You can reuse the acid, don't flush it or dump it. I then would use a wire hanger wrapped with tape and 000 steel wool at the end as a brush to get the rest of the residue out.
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How tall is the vase? How wide is the opening?
Ross
PS. If you try something be sure not to use warm or hot water.
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hello AJ - nice piece - and if only it was just dust ;D - you wouldn't then have a problem, but as it is quite likely to be limescale (or worse) - plus the very narrow neck, then you have difficulties. As has been suggested, the proprietary product Magic Balls (plus metal polish) is a good start, albeit time consuming, and tumblers are an alternative, but then you have to buy the machine to start with. I like suzzi's idea, and although I am aware of muriatic acid, hadn't considered it was something purchased easily in the U.K. - I think suzzi is from over the pond. I know that Ivo has commented previously on the need for extreme care when using strong acids, and with a piece like this - it may prove safer to have the vase cleaned professionally. Anyway, good luck with the cleaning :)
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if you do wash with water to remove the dust, once you've poured out the water swill it with meths and leave it to dry with the mouth facing down - it'll remove the remaining water drops and when the meths evaporates you won't get any small limescale spots.
not tried muriatic acid - aka hydrochloric acid or spirit of salts (hardware stores in uk often have spirit of salts as a drain cleaner)
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Don't go poking metal things into it!
I once ruined the arris (inside bevelled edge) of a lovely vase trying to clean the bottom of something.
I also nearly took my eyebrows off when I rinsed something with meths, then thought I'd burn it off! It did a very loud boom, and gave me a real fright!
I do the final rinse with distilled water (easily and cheaply bought as deionised water for irons and batteries),
then twist a taper of kitchen roll and stick it in down to the bottom - the tissue will absorb the water vapour.
The best thing I find - especially to start with, is that enzymatic clothes washing liquid, in a bit of room temp. water, give it a soak, then a swirl with copper balls.
To get rid of rust stains, minced raw onion shifts them.
Anything horribly smelly (perfume residue) can be made sweet again by rinsing with a dilute solution of sodium bicarbonate - but don't soak it - it's a bit alkaline, and glass doesn't like alkali.
Water stains need a professional person or at least professional equipment and stuff.
Try simple stuff before seriously nasty chemicals.
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Find yourself a woman and just leave it to her . :ooh: >:D :hi: it works if you can stand the nagging . :ooh:
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We don't have nagging in our house.
We have "constructive informationalisation". (Michael's term)
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That sofa looks a bit flimsy, to me...
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If i asked my good lady to clean it for me, i promise i would need something more substantial than a sofa to dodge the slings & arrows!!!
The vase is about 15" in height & the neck is about 5mm???
ANYBODY WANT TO BUY A VASE...........ITS VERY EASY TO CLEAN.....I PROMISE!!!
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Thanks for the tip on removing rust stains Sue, my lovely blue millefiori jug has some where someone has put silk flowers in with fresh flowers in water in it.........it wasn't me!!! I will try the onion trick.
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Thanks Sue
That seems like good & sound advise!! I shall try again today!!
Andrew
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For a vase this height, you will probably need two lengths of kitchen roll, tear a thin strip lenghtways, (hoping it won't come apart) and keep twisting gently, so it will go in. Keep twisting till it reaches the bottom. It should untwist a bit at the bottom. Change it a few times, it should dry eventually, as it will absorb vapour.
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Wow that neck is indeed narrow!
Normally I just get a couple of cotton wool balls - dampen them and add a very small amount of toothpaste then I slosh them back and forth so they gently scrub the part that is dirty. I can't imagine you being able to get a cotton ball into the vase.
Necessity being the mother of invention - lateral thinking is needed. I suggest you get some of that nice cane we all learned to use in Primary School art. Soak the end for say 24 hours and then give hat end a good bashing with a hammer so it approximates a brush. Put it in the vase with a very little soap & water and gently rotate it so the brush part scrubs away at the accumulated dirt. Hopefully you will have a wonderously clean vase after you rinse it with clean water.
Dare I say, good luck, Ross
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Ah, you are correct in assuming I am from the USA. I have spent a lot of time and money on finding the best way of cleaning vases just like this. You can try the onions and swirling balls, but it rarely works. I use lead #8 bird shot and aluminum oxide slurry in a motorized tumbler, and that takes a few days...so swirl away. The acid does work, especially on rust and hardened stains. Toilet bowl cleaner has enough acid to be effective if you have a problem finding Hydrochloric. You can make a brush with heavy gauge wire. Wrap the whole thing with tape to avoid scratching. It sounds funny to use 000 steel wool as a brush tip on the wire, but it works just fine. It won't scratch the glass, just make sure it is wet. If the glass is sick, you have to tumble it. I have heard strong Nitric acid will polish it off by eating away the glass, but that is very dangerous and hard to get in a high enough concentration... you can make it, if you dare, but I really caution against it.
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Ok.....warm water 50/50 with white vinegar & a collection of brushes bought from a tropical fish store, which are made for cleaning water pumps!! they range form 5mm-20mm. 12" in length, made from twisted aluminium with plastic brush heads, de-ionised water & silica gel.
Left to soak, then used brushes to scrub. Rinsed with de-ionised water. I drained most of the water then placed some silica gel into the vase & left overnight! & today....sparkling vase!! at last!!!
Thanks everyone!
top tip....the brushes were very useful!!
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suzzi - you sound the veritable alchemist - you should come and clean some of my pieces. I'm with you re the aluminium oxide and balls (to which I also add metal polish), but hadn't tried the adding the tumbler.......what do you do when the glass is asymetrical in diameter i.e. bulbous bottom and narrow top, for example.........do you attach some sort of collar to the narrow end in order to create a uniform diameter?? Understand that a quantity of short off-cuts of copper wire can be equally effective as balls (when used in a tumbler). Must admit I hadn't thought of using lavatory bowl bleach before (don't know why), but it sounds quite effective, and inexpensive, so will go out and buy some now. Can't remember if people had commented on caustic soda - and if the results were worth while. I'd always shied away from using wire wool - whatever grade - as assumed it would scratch the glass - never thought as to the origin of wire wool - i.e. as to whether it came from mild steel or something harder.
Nitric acid - definitely no comment!! stear clear.
Glad you had a good result AJ - guess you can put the goldfish back in now ;) - amazing, sometimes, what you can get into a tight opening.
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I'm exhausted reading all this, it might just be easier to go out and buy a new vase! :wsh:
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Keep caustic soda (Sodium hydroxide) away from your glass at all costs - it destroys glass, eats away at it, turns it all nasty and cloudy.
In labs, it's always stored in plastic bottles. If it were to be put in a glass bottle, with a glass stopper the two bits would fuse together.
I don't know if the same things are used for toilet cleaning in different countries - I certainly don't think there's acid in your ordinary Domestos!
There's lots of things which remove limescale - but they're not appropriate for places which have soft water and don't deposit lime. (ie. here in Scotland.)
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Personally I would not use kitchen roll for a piece with such a narrow neck. It is prone to splitting when being withdrawn thus ending up with a chunk of paper in the vase. I always use tightly rolled newspaper, which has more strength. :)
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That's a good idea - especially rather than kitchen roll two bits in length - it could come apart at its little perforations.
If it's just one bit of kitchen roll deep, it's ok as long as you tear it into a thin strip at right angles to the perforations.
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I just used silica gel which i purchased cheaply online. It soaks up the moisture very well & can be just skaken out as they only swell to about 2mm!
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Shaken Out*
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I've tried Harpic toilet cleaner and it hasn't worked at all. I found spirit of salts (hydrochloric acid) yesterday when I was in a DIY shop buying varnish so will have a go with that. Some stubborn cloudy sickness does not respond to Magic Balls, vinegar, egg shells, all those ordinary options. I also got cerium oxide to try. Now I just need the Flex-Shaft attachment for the Dremel.
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hi juli - surprised that you are able to buy hydrochloric acid that easily - must surely be a weak solution?? I had it in mind to buy some Domestos this week, but if your consclusions re Harpic are negative, then I may well not bother. I'm coming round to the conclusion that a tumbler is possibly the best idea, particularly as you can go to bed and let the thing work on its own - so may eventually go down that road. After my comments about caustic soda, I suddenly remembered that in certain proportional mixes with water, it can generate a lot of heat - so probably not a good thing to put into glass - aside from the other potential disasters that Sue has mentioned already. Do let me know how you get on with the spirits of salts, and I might then try, if you have some success. I think that cerium oxide and Brasso are as good a good combination as anything, if you can actually get into the piece of glass with the flexible drive. :)
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Barrettine do one http://www.barrettine.co.uk/b2/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=102&category_id=25&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=18
32%w/v
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thanks for that - I will wait for the results of julie's tests - will be useful to see how effective it is before I rush out and invest heavily in the product. ;D
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I was disappointed with these vases (the blue pair) when they arrived and had considered returning them but then I thought they'd be good to experiment on as they are very cloudy and weren't that expensive. If they get ruined I won't mind. If it works I'll be more confident to try cleaning some better vases (like the green one which looks practically white in that picture, I think I made it worse with all the things I tried on it: Stearadent mutiple times, 2 different toilet cleaners, etc).
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I take it that all three are bulb vases?? - as a suggestion, and if you not overly worried about the outcome, you might try suzzi's wire wool method. Keep the area wet/moist with say Brasso, and try a small area to start with, and maybe add some cerium oxide to boot. I wouldn't have thought that the chemicals you've used so far would have had an detrimental effect - unless perhaps there was some caustic soda mixed in somewhere along the line.
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The only things I might at is that when you are done use 91% Isoproply Alcohol after the water rinse as it displaces the water & evaporates quickly leaving no traces of spotting. On items you can reach areas that need cleaning easily (primarily bowls & large mouth vases), go to any auto parts store & pick up a can of fine grade rubbing compound & use a mix of 1/3 to 2/3 water to compound & use cotton balls to apply rubbing vigorously & when film starts to set add a few drops of water. Rinse & repeat the process probably 2-3 times. Although its work you'll be suprised that the RC will polish the sickness out without resorting to chemicals. Now if you use a Dremel & extension with a cotton attachment make ABSOLUTELY certain that you NEVER exceed speed 2 & make certain to add the drops of water to the paste as soon as the film appears. Speed 2 no problems, anything higher will start to generate heat & heat cracks glass. Now for the tumblers, a rock tumbler & cerium will do for small items, however its its a not a bad idea to use small plastic beads you can get cheap at any of the hobby jewelery stores instead of lead or steel shot. For the big stuff...well a buddy of mine put together a roller tumbler bench & even though he kept costs down it still amounted to $350. Best idea of course is to not buy sick glass unless the piece is really, really, really good & worth the effort. Ken
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Julie, I think we should start a caption competition for your picture....what is the cat thinking?!
"Poor Julie, if I knock these on the floor, it will save her the bother of cleaning them."
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quote from Ken................"Best idea of course is to not buy sick glass unless the piece is really, really, really good & worth the effort"......probably the best advice yet Ken ;D
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The cat is thinking;- "Why on earth are these in the foreground while I'm at the back?
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I would think that a cat and glass are a fatal combination - but I suppose if the glass is not that important then no matter. Hopefully, the good pieces are protected. :)
I've just tried wire wool plus cerium oxide plus metal polish, on a piece of Aseda, and regret to say that you can detect the ultra fine wear marks of the wire wool. However, it has removed the water staining/limescale by eighty odd percent, so the bottom line is that the effort gives a positive result, albeit not perfect, and the piece looks vastly better than before the treatment. Nonetheless, I think Ken's advice not to buy a cloudy piece to start with is the best way.
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Well this has become a personal battle between me and the cloudiness so I'm determined to find a method to deal with it but yes, I agree it probably is a good idea to avoid buying cloudy glass in the first place! This clear vase is more important to me to clean so will do this after I've gotten a good result with the others. It was one of the first antique hyacinth vases I got so I guess it has sentimental value and I'd quite like to get it looking better.
Pussycat has never knocked anything over in the 6 years I've had him :). He generally doesn't get near the glass unless I'm photographing it on the table. Thinking about it hyacinth vases are pretty heavy and "sturdy" and not easy to knock over.
I tried Spontex steel wool on the green vase last year and I can see the marks as well. Not sure if I kept going whether all the white would eventually come off and then there'd be no scratch marks to see.
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Not sure if someone already gave you the tip of them small metal pearls that you put into the vase and swirl them around. The crystal glass company Riedel has some steel pearls that you can reuse over and over again and I use them all the time when cleaning my old pieces I come across.
/Mikael, Sweden.
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There is a product called Barkeeper's Friend which has removed stains from some glass that nothing else would touch - it's especially good at removing rust marks and similar inside vases. http://www.lakeland.co.uk/F/product/8868 but Sainsbury's sell it too. Maybe worth a try before you give up hope, Julie. (BTW for anyone who drives, it apparently works very well to really clean car windscreens too! :thup:)
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"for anyone who drives, it apparently works very well to really clean car windscreens too!" ...........Is there anyone here who doesn't drive :o - I believe that Sue doesn't have access to 'wheel's - but can't imagine there's anyone else here who doesn't have a set.
Coming back to the subject of wire wool - and Mikael's comments regarding the Riedel steel pearls - I've pinched the following data from the webb, which illustrates why steel/wire wool will leave marks on glass.
The relative hardness of some materials are: Diamond 10.0 - Steel 7.0 - Glass 5.5 - Tin 1.5
Fairly obvious really, I suppose, and I guess most people would know that steel is harder than glass. As already mentioned, wire wool does have its use - insofar as it will manually remove a fair amount of limescale quite quickly, and improve the clarity of the piece (especially when used with a carrier such as Brasso plus additives like aluminium or cerium oxide). As someone else commented about a year back......."then you just smear with a little silcone grease, and hey presto all blemishes are invisible) - sounds like a skin cream ;)
Of course if you have wide access to the internal parts of the glass then in goes the flexible drive/cotton mops (hessian/leather or whatever) and no problem - BUT, then you have the problem that if the issue is not limescale, and instead is a glass surface that has been eaten into, its good night Vienna, and you are probably snookered.
I get the feeling that if the cloudiness appears as a noticeable 'whitish' colour, then you have limescale - otherwise is is a case of glass sickness.
Having tried just about everything under the sun, except a tumbler or hydrochloric, I suspect nothing works as effectively as a professional acid wash, but must admit if I cud work up the enthusiasm I wud like to try a tumbler - just that most of my problem pieces are problem shapes, and might not fit ;D
Must admit Anne that I haven't tried Barkeeper's Friend - but have been disappointed by so many of the proprietory products that just didn't live up to expectations.
So, anyone know what an average cost of professional acid wash might be??
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As an experiment I had a couple of items acid dipped, I was advised that an item needed a high lead content for it to work properly. One vase was a bit of Whitefriars FLC (high lead content) the other was a Czech vase (low or no lead content), both had severe water staining. The FLC vase came out absolutely perfect, there was no sign of any staining left. The Czech vase was improved but there was an unsightly 'bloom' left behind, it was better, the water staining had been reduced but it was still not good.
If your item does not have a high lead content then to remove water staining it will require polishing.
John
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Coming back to the subject of wire wool - and Mikael's comments regarding the Riedel steel pearls - I've pinched the following data from the webb, which illustrates why steel/wire wool will leave marks on glass.
The relative hardness of some materials are: Diamond 10.0 - Steel 7.0 - Glass 5.5 - Tin 1.5
Fairly obvious really, I suppose, and I guess most people would know that steel is harder than glass.
I am wondering why both German and English wikipedia state that steel wool is softer than glass, and is therefore used for cleaning glass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_wool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_wool)
Michael
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I know it looks a bit strange, but I´m having good results with my selfmade polishing kit.
I´ve drilled a hole into the shortened handle of a toilet brush and a smaller wheat-bear-glass-brush
(yep, those really special brushes do exist here :grin:) and fixed a piece of threaded bar in it to make
it fit into the drill chuck of a cordless electric screwdriver.
Using it with some cerium oxide will give a good result after a few minutes already. Of course
it will only work on vases with a wide opening, but advantageously it will polish the whole area
covered by the brush at once. This method will surely be a bit dangerous for the more fragile
pieces, since the brush will be more or less strongly vibrating - depending on how successfully
straight you´ve been able to drill the hole for the threaded bar.
Your hand may feel a bit numb afterwards. Personally I like to sit down and use the wooden
extension, hold the piece with my feet and rest my ellbow on my thigh. :t:
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"Personally I like to sit down and use the wooden extension, hold the piece with my feet and rest my ellbow on my thigh" - I love it Dirk ;D - but for a moment wondered what it was that you were doing ;). But your system sounds very ingenious and practical, and if it works then you're a clever inventor.
regarding the comments from rocco......now I'm confused a little...........although obviously steel in the form of wire wool is compressable/resilient/non-rigid..........unlike a piece of steel............might that be what they mean. However, bottom line seems to be that if you rub steel wool on glass (with any appreciable force) it will leave very fine abraided marks.
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You can get different grades of wire wool in the same way that sandpaper is available in different grades. The courser the grade the bigger the scratch that is produced, to remove deep scratches progressively finer abrasive is used until the eye can no longer discern any mark. I always have very fine wire wool lying around, it belongs in my wood polishing and restoration 'magic' box, along with sandpaper, shellac, pigments, etc. Anyway, I have removed some nasty gunge from a glass with a bit of fine wire wool and it will mark the surface with scratches, likely depending on the amount of force used and the type (hardness) of the glass.
I have used a dentist's drill with cerium powder and a little water Dirk (excellent contraption you have there ;D)- don't let the heat build up or :cry:
John
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:-[ :ooh: :-[
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"for anyone who drives, it apparently works very well to really clean car windscreens too!" ...........Is there anyone here who doesn't drive :o - I believe that Sue doesn't have access to 'wheel's - but can't imagine there's anyone else here who doesn't have a set.
You'd be wrong then Paul, cos I don't drive either. :t: (and never have)
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Got a license but no car for four years now.... :)
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for once I'm rather lost for words - so I'll go away and shut up. :)
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just a quickie - as I don't want to start another 'cleaning' thread........but just to show these two pics. of a 5"/125mm pub glass from somewhere around 1860 - 1890, which as you can see was encrusted with limescale. Using snipped off ends of copper wire plus magic balls plus cerium oxide plus metal polish - I closed off the opening and shook manually for about 12 - 15 minutes all told , then finished off with metal polish (only) and a hard felt mop on a flexible drive. I'm more than pleased with the result, and certainly better than trying to scrape off the limescale which feel sure may well have caused scratches on the glass. So, I'm very happy, and not a thread of wire wool used anywhere ;D
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There's a lot of people queuing up at your gate with glass vases and bottles and glass things in bags......I wonder why they are there? :o.....look out of your window Paul!!
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Paul, well done, that's an excellent result! :hiclp: :hiclp: :hiclp:
Now just as an aside, I have a small diamond optic ribbed footed glass which accidentally went into the dishwasher a few years ago, and came out with a white bloom which has resisted all efforts to remove it... until this week, when it was used for pineapple juice, and after being washed after the juice is now almost clear again! So why would pineapple juice do that...? (And what does it do to my insides???) :o :o :o
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Anne both lemon & pineapple juices are rather acidic & can be used as a substitue for some cleaning products although its certainly not cost effective. For example if you put a corroded US penny in either lemon or pineapple juice it will remove the corrosion in 1/2 the time it takes if you used Coca-Cola. Ken
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Ken is quite correct, of course - lemons and limes have high concentrations of citric acid, accounting for their bitter taste. Oranges and tangerines are also high in citric acid, though lower than the more bitter citrus fruits. You can find citric acid present in certain berries too, particularly raspberries and blackberries. In industry, apparently, citric acid is used to make good “natural” cleaners, though some of these may still contain chemicals that are not wholly green. As kids we certainly did put old pennies into coke, just to see the effect of making them shine. Dishwashers are notorious for putting a bloom on glass, I've noticed, so don't think we shud use that machine for anything valuable or delicate. I suspect the small amount of citric acid that we consume is mitigated by the bodies natural digestive acids that we produce to breakdown our vitals, so I would'nt worry too much Anne. ;)
Yes, I was truly pleased with the result, and will try that method again.
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sorry..........I meant 'victuals' :pb:
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Very interesting. I got some Brasso but still looking for Barkeeper's Friend. I will add pineapple juice to my shopping list as well. I read somewhere a long time ago about how pineapple workers had their skin dissolved by the pineapple. I think it's another chemical rather than just acid that has this property (bromelain?). Anyway, I'm certainly interested to have a go with it.
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Limescale is relatively easy to remove with something acidic. It's just calcium carbonate. It's the bloom within the top layers (at the molecular level) of glass that's the issue.
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quite right Christine - it is the glass sickness that is the greater evil - although fortunately for me my glass had a problem with limescale only. I've tried a variety of proprietary so called limescale removers, but never had any real success - so having used a finger nail to test the hardness of the deposits in my glass, I played safe and refrained from scratching. As you quite rightly say, these calcium carbonate deposits are precipitated from water solutions, but over a long period of time can become calcified to a remarkable degree of hardness - you have only to think of the stalactites/stalagmites that grow in caves. :o I did in fact try Domestos - but it produced no improvement at all.
However, think I will now go out and corner the market in lemons ready or my next effort ;) - so tell us then, which product do you use for similar situations?
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As a point of interest, pineapple juice is far from acidic....in fact in can be almost alkaline. Hence it is recommended for patients with arthritis......in adition, it contains the enzyme bromelain, an effective anti inflamatory agent, which redices pain and increases mobility in arthritis Patients. Only fresh pineapple contains bromelain, as it is destroyed in the heat process of packaged juice or tinned pineapple.......so it is a mystery why it would have removed the bloom from your glass Anne.
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Hmmm thanks all. I was puzzled by the idea of acid as this glass is regularly used for orange juice but that's not had any impact on the bloom. It's certainly not limescale as our water is very soft so that's never a problem here. This was cartoned pineapple juice not fresh. I'll go experiment some more. ;)
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As a point of interest, pineapple juice is far from acidic....in fact in can be almost alkaline. Hence it is recommended for patients with arthritis......in adition, it contains the enzyme bromelain, an effective anti inflamatory agent, which redices pain and increases mobility in arthritis Patients. Only fresh pineapple contains bromelain, as it is destroyed in the heat process of packaged juice or tinned pineapple.......so it is a mystery why it would have removed the bloom from your glass Anne.
Another fine reason for one of my favourite fruits! Shame about the packaged/tinned bit. But I will persevere incase there is a bit left :cheers: :24:
Carolyn
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Rosie with all due respect Pineapple juice is acidic not alkaline as it rate on the PH charts from a 3.3 to 3.6 canned to 4.0 to 4.82 diluted & since neutral PH is 7.0 anything less than 7.0 is acidic. For bromelain (the main proteolytic enzyme in pineapple), its optimum pH range, untreated is in the range of 3.5-4.0. I use plain, simple canned pineapple juice & most brands do contain bromelain, not as much as fresh pineapple but if the bromelain were completely removed in the manufacturing process (and I've found no evidence that indicates bromelain is removed in the general manufacturing process) then it certainly could not be labeled & sold as pineapple juice. Ken
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Pineapple juice may be acidic but bromelain is an proteolytic enzyme rather than an acid. It breaks down proteins. Enzymes do not behave in the same way as acids, as they do not actually react. They are catalysts that speed up the reactions of other things. Pineapple juice does, however, contain several organic acids such as citric and malic acid.
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In some respects you are correct Ken. Tinned pineapple and processed pineapple juice are indeed mildly acidic, however, fresh pineapple as farmed today, are grown in a way that allows them to ripen without bacterial intervention, therefore are either extremely low acidic, neutral or alkaline. It is this fact along with the presence of bromelain as an anti-inflamatory enzyme that allows patients with arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis to consume large daily amounts without suffereing indigestion. Pineapple also is alkali-forming so also helps to reduce the stomach acid. It is these facts that we use to recommend the ingestion of fresh pineapple on a daily basis to all our patients. The one drawback in 'prescribing' daily fresh pineapple for some patients, is that those with more sensitive oral mucosa ( ie those who have been on large doses of prednisolone to suppress the inflammatory process) may find that they are more susceptible to mouth ulcers and therefore may need to take bromelain tablets for the same therapeutic effect.
However, back to cleaning glass.....I think I have :hj: this thread for long enough!!
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I think you are confusing alkali forming (alkalising) foods with alkalinity. Fruit acids + fruit sugars are the basis of fruit flavours. I can see that you could have less-acidic pineapples but not alkaline ones. Vitamin C is an acid just for a start. Even a banana is pH 4 to 5 ish and a cucumber is 5-ish.
I suspect the nutritionists are looking at things in a different way to the chemists (like me) and not quite hitting the spot with the actual basic science. The pH of the ash, which is something nutritionists seem to cite, is pretty irrelevant to the raw fruit's chemistry.
Raw fruit involves complex organic (carbon-containing) acids. Producing ash from fruit reduces the chemistry to inorganic, which is much less complex and where alkalinity involves things like sodium and potassium hydroxide.
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Enzymes are themselves proteins and will be severely damaged by heat.
Proteins have a "quaternary" structure - the first being the string of amino acids, the second being how that string is folded, the third being how that structure is folded and the quaternary structure is how that one is folded.
Heat destroys these delicate and prescise foldings.
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Anne, whatever turned out to be the cleaning agent in pineapple, I think I'd be more concerned about consuming the juice it after it had removed whatever it was that was clouding your jug, since presumably that would be dissolved in the liquid...
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Too much pineapple and you'll be dissolving/cooking your insides!
(meat can be "cooked" by injecting it with pineapple juice)
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....anyway - back to glass. Two pieces that were heavily clouded/limescaled when first bought (boot sales) - and which I had assumed would be cleaned without too much trouble, although unfortunately not the case, and both proved difficult. After the recent comments re lemons and citric acid, I filled the Webb's stem vase with neat freshly squeezed juice and left for 24 hours - but no improvement that I cud see. I tried copper balls/aluminium oxide/metal polish, but there's no room in the stem to swing a cat, so no velocity for the balls to reach and very little improvement. Resorted to Dirk's narrow brush on a wire, propelled by a cordless drill, and after lots of patience and cerium oxide/metal polish, reached the improvement you see - about 90% I guess. So, anyone want to buy three cwt. of lemons. ;D
The W/Fs. is obviously the easier piece to get at, although the felt mop on the drill was almost getting me nowhere - so resorted to manual use of a nylon body scrub pad/wire wool - which removed the cloudiness, but left behind the marks typical of wire wool. Used a flexible drive (from a mains drill) with a compressed felt wheel, plus metal polish/cerium oxide, and eventually achieved the result you see. Again, probably something like a 95% success rate (slightly better than the Webb's - I think). I'm in two minds as to whether the nylon pad is damaging - we know the wire wool can be - but I might give more thought to using the nylon pad. If you can get inside the piece, then wire wool is a useful material - provided you accept that time must be spent polishing out the feint abrasive marks afterwards.
Believe both of these pieces had glass sickness rather than simple limescale deposits - but goes to show that with patience even bad pieces can be brought back to a useful life, provide you accept that some examples may require a lot of time spent on them.
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hi, i had a normann twisty vase that had a very narrow neck, i got an old neckchain, quite a heavy one, filled the vase with soapy water and let the chain drop down to bottom of vase and swirled roun and round, whilst holding onto end of chain of course! it worked brilliantly, give it a whirl.
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hi elaine :) - I'm not too good at modern glass, so don't know what a 'normann twisty vase' looks like - show me a pic. if possible. And which metal was the chain made from?? - I'm afraid I don't wear jewellry, but guess your problem might have been only mild limescale - because some of these pieces need a lot of work, and a little swirling won't, I don't believe, cure some of the bad cases of staining. Nonetheless, thanks very much for the suggestion, and I might now raid my wife's jewellry box ;D Glad it worked for you :thup:
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:thup:
That's a great suggestion - thanks very much, Elaine!
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Anne, whatever turned out to be the cleaning agent in pineapple, I think I'd be more concerned about consuming the juice it after it had removed whatever it was that was clouding your jug, since presumably that would be dissolved in the liquid...
Cathy, that's what was worrying me too! :)
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If you have all of the lime and calcium off and you are left with a white haze you can try burnishing it with a thick mixture of Ivory soap and water. Use a cheese grater to shred the soap and mix it up with a little water to make a syrupy liquid. Then use the plastic pellets from from a beanie baby and some of the soap. Swirl it around, could take a long time. I prefer to use lead or copper shavings or pellets for added weight. Cuts down on time. I use a machine that spins a piece of PVC pipe which I put bottles in, etc. By looking at your stains, you will never, ever, in a million years, get them off with pineapple juice. I restore glass, and have tried everything from Polydent to acids.
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use the plastic pellets from from a beanie baby
:o You would disembowel a Beanie Baby to clean your glass???? :thud:
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>:D
:smg: Yay - somebody has finally found a function for the 'orrible things! :smg:
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quote from suzzi........... "I use a machine that spins a piece of PVC pipe which I put bottles in"...........may we ask please suzzi the origin of your machine, or is it home made?
I bought some Harpic tablets today (which promote their marvelous ability to banish limescale) - thought I'd give them a go, since the other proprietary bleach was useless - anyone else tried Harpic?