Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: dirk. on April 09, 2011, 06:09:54 PM
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Hi
Usually not amongst the things I buy, but this beer mug looked quite old and therefore deemed
a good subject to learn something new to me. ;)
The ´front´ is cut with different patterns. The handle is applied from bottom to top and is facetted.
The base has a six-star-cut with ovals in the space between. The shape of the base is quite
distinctive and I´m hoping it might be a pointer towards the mug´s age.
Anyone able to shed some light?
It´s 18,7cm tall, the base is 9cm wide
TIA
Dirk
edit: Forgot: There´s a measuring line of ¼ L at the top. Assuming the mug is as old as I´m thinking,
would you say it´s a later addition?
I´m sure it used to have a lid - unfortunately it got lost...
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Dirk sorry can't help, but have a question - what is the significance of a handle applied bottom to top? I remember somewhere hearing that a handle applied a certain way round could signify age, but I can't remember nor google the fact I heard :-\
m
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hope you won't mind if I add a comment re the handle application.......
Believe it was Bernard some year or so ago (although it's also in one of the books) - prior to about 1860 (mainly), the effect is an 'S' shape handle, by applying the glass to the rim of the vessel - this was then drawn out and the other end crimped onto the body. After this date, the practice is reversed, with the glass being applied to the body initially, then drawn up, and the end turned in before it was applied to the rim.
On this basis, Dirk's example wud appear to be post about 1860. What do people think?
Ref. The Arthur Negus Guid to British Glass - John Brooks - 1981.
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Thank you both! I vaguely remembered something like that...
If it´s post this date I wonder if it´s made in an older style? The quite massive foot surely has
a practical reason, but I haven´t seen anything like it before - not that this is significant of
anything else, but my perfect ignorance concerning older glass. ::)
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I would look through some of the older catalogues on glas-musterbuch... There's an awful lot of beer glasses in some of them: pressed and blown
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:hb1: Thanks for your suggestion, Christine. :kissy: Sometimes you simply forget to do the most obvious... ::)
A few examples from the 1878 Stölzle catalogue look vaguely similar, but none has a foot quite as wide and massive as
this one.
However - I´m really amazed, because I´ve been able to ID another item while browsing. My stopperless carafe turned
out to be in the 1840´s Haunay Lautin catalogue.... ;D
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Does that big ole thing really only hold a quarter liter?! If that line really does indicate exactly 1/4 L, that would point to it being within the metric time frame. Otherwise it's a pretty mysterious mark! What makes you think it had a lid?
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Hi Kristi - pleasure hearing from you!!! :kissy:
In fact the ¼ line isn´t exact; the glass holds ~300ml, when filled up to the line, where the cut
patterns end.
Sorry for not describing this item carefully enough. The glass is up to 7mm thick at the top rim
and it´s quite a heavy beast with 730g.
What makes me think it had a lid is the fact, that there are two little kerfs at the top of the handle
- see last photo. They have a metallic graphite-like look inside and I was assuming they were meant
to fixate a tin lid.
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The litre was first officially defined in 1901, the metric system originated during the French Revolution and as this mug is probably from Continental Europe...
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Ah, thanks for the details, Christine. :)
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And nice talking to you (and others) as well, Dirk! :kissy: It's indeed an interesting piece. I imagine the 1/4 L was added later.
I've looked through a few sites showing a lot of steins. I've seen a couple with similar heavy-looking bottoms, but nothing matching yours in other respects. This is the closest I could find - it looks nothing like yours, but it has a heavy solid bottom, low round handle, and cut pattern. Oh - they say it's mold blown - I wonder if that applies to the flowers, too. Hmph.
Looks so awkward with the low handle, like it would be hard to work the hinge to get the lid open. Intriguing piece.
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Uwe Wolf has a few on his site:
http://www.glaswolf.de/Geschliffene-Kruege.326.0.html
It seems this low handle was quite popular at the end of the 19th century. I still can´t believe it´s early 20th,
when the litre was introduced, so last third of the 19th with a later added measure line seems plausible for me.
This would possible make sense, because it´s obviously an article of use. So the owner himself may have added
(or let add) the measure within his lifetime.
The foot is intriguingly effective. It´s impossible to tip it over; it will always slide.
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Just to add to Paul's comment earlier in the thread, the Molineaux Webb pressed glass catalogue bears out this idea of the shape of handle changing circa 1860. It has a number of jug designs from 1840 to 1870, and virtually all the pre 1855 jugs, like the design 411 shown here, have the S shape handle, with the post 1865 ones having a different shape, such as design 435, which can be dated to 1867. There is a bit of crossover in handle shape in the 1855 - 1865 time period.
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Thanks for the illustration, Neil, and sorry for not replying earlier. I´m having a few days off thankfully and
been away to Lake Constance to visit a friend. :)
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Would it have been for a ship. thinking because of big base and possible lid?
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Interesting point definitely, thanks for the suggestion! I´ll try to investigate that route as well... :)