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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Leni on May 17, 2011, 10:20:03 AM

Title: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 17, 2011, 10:20:03 AM
I bought this cut glass rose bowl at the National last Sunday.  I have searched it for any sign of a mark, but there is a fair amount of wear on the base, so if it had an acid etched mark it could well be worn away.  It's quite large and heavy - 7 inches (18cm) tall by 8 inches (20cm) wide - and the cutting is fairly deep, particularly the 'step' cutting round the shoulder and foot, and the 'swags'.  Does anyone recognise the pattern or have any idea of the age?  Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 19, 2011, 04:39:46 PM
Ahem ... I know a lot of people here aren't greatly moved by cut glass, but may I move this up the board again just in case someone who is missed it?  Thanks  ;)
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 19, 2011, 04:45:53 PM
I'm sure this piece has to be by somebody very good - but as you know, I'm not good with cut stuff!

I found a couple of little tumblers last week, marked Webb (Webb alone). The mark is a nightmare to find or read! Just a little wear would have obliterated it completely. Even when I pointed it out to folk, they couldn't see it.
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 19, 2011, 05:01:34 PM
The mark is a nightmare to find or read! Just a little wear would have obliterated it completely. Even when I pointed it out to folk, they couldn't see it.

Yeah, I've got stuff marked like that, Sue  ::)  I was sort of hoping someone might recognise the style or shape or cutting, or something ....  so I might have an idea where to start!  :spls:
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 19, 2011, 05:07:00 PM
It's not quite completely "traditional", but neither is it completely "art cut", the shape is unusual, so is the star cutting on the base - I'd have thought it might suggest something to somebody!

 :X: :X: :X:
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Paul S. on May 19, 2011, 10:20:08 PM
think I'm only going to make it worse Leni :-\    Deep cutting can often create 'brilliant cut' - but think this design too simple for that.  Could take your pick from Walsh, S & W, or perhaps Stuart  -  but seems it's the shape that is a problem..........looking through the Walsh pattern books, there is almost nothing like this rose bowl with a top that 'goes back in' to quite this extent - so stumped really - also, occurs to me this could be a difficult piece to make.      Triangular segments with this sort of strawberry diamonds/cross hatching, plus the row of arcaded panels around the top, probably pre-date the more common designs of extensive geometric deep mitre cutting of the period 1925 - 1950 ish -of which there are shed loads of pieces lying in every bric-a-brac shop in the world - and which no one now wants.   This is good, and I'm going to plump for 1900 - 1920 - although may possibly not be English.     Sorry it doesn't really help. :)
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Trebor on May 19, 2011, 10:33:43 PM
Hi Leni the style look`s 1920-30 artdeco .It`s a nice piece i like cut glass it`s honest. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 20, 2011, 07:58:46 AM
Thank you, Paul and Robert (and Sue!  ;D ) for your comments. 

I was intrigued by the shape of this bowl, with the 'turned in' top, and have not seen anything quite like it.  I agree the cutting is too simple for 'brilliant', and although the edges of the deeper cuts round the shoulder and the 'swags' are quite sharp, the 'cross-hatching' is not sharp, so it was obviously acid-polished after cutting.  I think it has a feeling of around the 1930's design wise, but, while interesting, it's not what you'd really call adventurous. 

Please can anyone advise me on which resources, either books or on the internet, I should look at to learn more about cut glass?  Thanks again   :)
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: singingyamada on May 20, 2011, 08:33:03 AM
what did the seller say about it.  BTW tis Beeeautiful.  And you have done well in your phtography. :smg:
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Paul S. on May 20, 2011, 08:33:39 AM
I'm going to disagree with robert (very nicely, of course) :) - and say that I think the flowing/curved lines of the swags suggest a more pre deco style - thus maintaining my original thoughts of pre 1920, supported, maybe, by the "fair amount of wear".         However, that is simply a personal opinion, and may have nothing to do with the truth ;D     Re the question regarding a good tome on cut glass  -  sorry can't really think of anything specific............there are bits and bobs all over the show...........you have the Walsh book (forgotten the author for the moment) - there is some in Hajdamach, but have just had a quick look on Abe and there seems to be a good selection  -  obviously none of which I possess :)     
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 20, 2011, 08:51:24 AM
I'm going to disagree with robert (very nicely, of course) :) - and say that I think the flowing/curved lines of the swags suggest a more pre deco style - thus maintaining my original thoughts of pre 1920, supported, maybe, by the "fair amount of wear". 

Hmmmm! You may well be right about that,Paul.  It would explain the cutting not being quite as 'adventurous' as the slightly later 'Art' pieces! 

If I could just get a slightly more definite hint of the precise period of this piece, it might give me a better idea of where to look for more info!  :-\ 

Thanks again for your input :)
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Lustrousstone on May 20, 2011, 09:53:07 AM
No suitable hints in Nigel's Art Deco to Post Modernism  :-\
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 20, 2011, 10:47:40 AM
Not really, Christine (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/533.gif)  Unless it's just that I'm to dense to see the clues  :spls: (which is entirely possible!  ::) )  Although I did wonder if this bowl might be more recent than I supposed - it's a very heavy item (2.5 kg) and I suppose the signs of heavy wear can happen if something that heavy is moved a lot, not just over a long period of time  :-\   

Just spent the morning going through BOTH Hajdamach's AND 'The Glass of John Walsh Walsh' (just in case) AND 'Art Deco to Post Modernism' again, just in case!   Where next?  :hb2:   

 :help:   

 
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Lustrousstone on May 20, 2011, 11:06:21 AM
Put your glasses on gal; there was no question mark.  :kissy:
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 20, 2011, 11:23:14 AM
Put your glasses on gal; there was no question mark.  :kissy:

 :pb:  :24:
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 20, 2011, 01:37:36 PM
Leni, you say the cut is too simple to be "brilliant".
I'm not exactly sure what this term means - is it the same thing as I >:D would refer to as "Death by a thousand cuts"?
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: Leni on May 20, 2011, 02:19:59 PM
Leni, you say the cut is too simple to be "brilliant".
I'm not exactly sure what this term means - is it the same thing as I >:D would refer to as "Death by a thousand cuts"?
Yes!  :24: :24: :24:  :thup:
Title: Re: Cut Glass Rose Bowl - Maker? Date?
Post by: chopin-liszt on May 20, 2011, 02:29:42 PM
Thank-you, Miss!  :kissy:
That's my "thing learned" for today.  :thup: