Glass Message Board

Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on May 19, 2011, 07:08:57 PM

Title: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Paul S. on May 19, 2011, 07:08:57 PM
thinking I was improving in the recognition stakes, I bought this one morning on the strength of the fact that I was 99% sure I remembered it was a W/Fs. shape.  However, whilst it bears a similarity to pattern No. 9124 (constricted neck), it doesn't have the correct overall rectangular shape  -  and unlike 9124 this neck is 'waisted'.    I have looked at the catalogues from 1937 - 1957, but nothing else comes near enough that I can see, plus colour seems a little pale - so do I assume not W/Fs?     Height is 8.5".     thanks in advance for any help. :)
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Leni on May 19, 2011, 09:12:11 PM
I would also say the blue was not quite right for WF Sapphire either, Paul   :-\
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: chriscooper on May 19, 2011, 09:52:58 PM
Hi Paul, not one I recognise is the rim flat ground and polished? some similarities with the 9124 like you say but not quite right.

http://www.whitefriars.com/contents.php?ID=129

These and the similar 9376 Hogan pieces with the lobed bases had uneven fire polished rims

http://www.whitefriars.com/contents.php?ID=249

 Also agree with Leni the blue is not quite for sapphire
Had a good look through the Jackson book and nothing comes close.
I never say never,  but probably not in my opinion , but won't insult your intelligence by saying it could be Scandinavian but it could be a good next step :wsh:
Chris


Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Paul S. on May 19, 2011, 10:24:55 PM
ohhh - goofed perhaps, then.    However, I can say that is does have a fire polished rim (certainly not ground and polished) - daren't start banging around the house now, it's too late, and so I will look again tomorrow.      shhhhhhhh    she has gone to bed. ;)   
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Paul S. on May 23, 2011, 07:26:57 PM
just to say that I did look through Leslie Pina and Bill Geary, but so far it remains unidentified.    Anyway, thanks again for looking and for your suggestions.  :)
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Sussex_Oast on May 23, 2011, 09:17:28 PM
Hey Paul
IMHO I think it's a scandi vase. I have seen numerous pieces purported to be Whitefriars which all have one thing in common, a completely spherical pontil mark such as this one. I know it sounds a bit daft but they are always perfect circles and quite unlike the standard Whitefriars pontil mark which is quite uneven. Annoyingly I can't remember the name of the Scandi manufacturer but it might just put you on the right track!? regards
Simon
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Paul S. on May 24, 2011, 07:45:00 AM
thanks Simon, and would agree with you that it seems Scandi is now the most likely direction.   Coincidentally, this morning I have been looking through Stennett-Willson's 'The Beauty of Modern Glass' - thinking I might possibly find it there, but not luck.     Don't know that I'd agree with you, as a generalization, about W/Fs. pontil marks being uneven (not a good circular shape)  -  I've just had a rummage through my small collection of pre-Baxter and the textured pieces that he designed - and I'd be the first to admit that I'm the lest likely person to comment on this issue, but.............    my conclusion seems to be that the more heavily textured examples are susceptible to having less than circular pontils  -  although other smooth (non-Baxter) pieces seem to have good quality circular marks.    We need one of the W/Fs. buffs to comment. :)   
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: chriscooper on May 24, 2011, 08:38:38 AM
Paul, pretty much agree with you about the polished pontil marks, nice and neat though has you say on some of the textured pieces they tended to look a little 'stretched' sometimes but even a lot of them were quite neat.
A triangle vase....
https://picasaweb.google.com/107067405711297858658/126#5602165996365636930

The bowls, thick walled vessels, and jugs again neat as you can get..

https://picasaweb.google.com/107067405711297858658/PontilMarks?authkey=Gv1sRgCJv4zKvWjKnl8gE#

Chris
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: flying free on May 24, 2011, 08:44:38 AM
Chris, off on a tangent here, have you still got the pulled bubble paperweight? I have a suggestion for it.
m
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: chriscooper on May 24, 2011, 12:33:32 PM
Was it this one m

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,40049.0.html

Don't want Paul complaining his threads been hijacked ;D
Chris
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: flying free on May 24, 2011, 01:14:22 PM
yes :)
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: vidrioguapo on May 24, 2011, 01:37:08 PM
Paul, your blue vase is nice, could it be Orrefors? Maybe? And ........ :24: surprised you spelt Sapphire with just one "P" in the title..........you being so perfect in everyway usually  :24:...........it's been driving me crazy since I first saw it!  Perhaps just a "typo" huh?  :thup:
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Paul S. on May 24, 2011, 03:37:38 PM
No problem Chris :)
Emmi..........do you know I believed genuinely that was the correct spelling of sapphire - I never gave it a thought it might be otherwise ....oh what a dunce :pb:....it's one of those words that, ordinarily, I never need to spell.      Thanks for pointing out my mistake - I guess we all have our blind spot, and you remember the maxim..........'people who don't make mistakes don't make anything'  -  so I don't feel too bad. :angel:    In fact it's all the fault of those ancient Greeks from whom who stole the word, apparently.   My blue vase is so nice you should offer to buy it at an exorbitant price :24:    But seriously, thanks for the suggestion re Orrefors - although I don't have too much data on that output, so will need to ferret around for some images etc.
Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Paul S. on June 02, 2011, 07:18:32 PM
Just had the following reply back from Orrefors:.................

""Can you find any signature in the bottom of the vase?    I cannot find any when looking at the picture. Orrefors has used signature for quite some time and so has Kosta.
It could be Orrefors but it might as well have been made somewhere else. I am sorry not being able to help you.     Best regards""

It's true, of course, about the Nos. and signatures on their pieces  -  you only have to look in some of the books and webb sites.      Unfortunately, the smallish flat base area on this one is so well worn and scratched that it's virtually impossible to detect if there was ever anything there, although I sense some vestige would have remained had it been done originally.   Would be great if all Nos. and signatures were put within the concave pontil.

I will now try the V. & A. in London, so  :X:

Title: Re: possible W/Fs saphire vase.
Post by: Paul S. on June 14, 2011, 03:24:05 PM
just had a reply from the Ceramics and Glass section of the V. & A. (London) - and they have indicated that they unable to find an exact match.   However, they have drawn my attention to similar shaped pieces from W/Fs., designed by Tom Hill, as being very similar (think this was what I had in mind originally when purchased - although appears not now to be connected).    So guess will have to leave this for the moment, as needs further thought.