Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: chopin-liszt on May 22, 2011, 04:46:02 PM
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:sun:
I'm a fish out of water with pressed glass, it rarely appeals to me, but today, I bought this beast. It's going to be my "one shining example of quality pressed glass in this vein".
In some ways - possibly the huge lumps sticking out, it reminds me of Verlys, but it's not as flared as the Verlys bits I've seen.... or as floral.
It has a bit of a "Darth Vader" feeling about it.
The images have made the blue look far too sapphire which sadly, emasculates it a bit - the one showing the rim is closest to reality.
It has been made in a 4 part mould - the really fascinating thing about that is the mould lines are not straight - they follow the design edges, weaving around the leaves, a feature which tells me somebody has put serious effort into making it to the best of their abilities.
There are bubbles in the glass, to be expected with something of some age, and tons of wear (and a bit of damage) to the bird-bath sort of base.
It is a single pattern all around - no repeats.
thanks for any comments! :hi:
Mod: Images with inaccurate colour rendition removed as requested. :) Sue has added better photos below.
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I wondered about Barolac (did not see it on the Sklo Union Art Before industry CD database).
How big is it Sue?
John
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:hi:
It's 7" tall, and 5" wide at the rim of the body - but some of the leaves stick out about a half inch.
I've managed to get some better pics - funnily enough, under artifical light, it has come out in it's true colours. I've named it my Darth Vader vase. :bat:
I know next to nothing about pressed stuff - the only Barolac I've paid any attention to is opalescent - I'm lost, don't know where or how to start. :spls:
I know Barolac have done some wonderful sculptural pieces - but this seems far bolder, more modernist, somehow.
At least these pics show the true colour, the poor thing has had it's masculinity restored. :smg:
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???
Might they be Lily Pad flowers around it ??? Click Here (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51f4udSUA4L._SL160_.jpg) :huh: ??? Merely a Guess.....
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Rose that's what I was trying to think of :hiclp: the other being a sweetheart plant? dont' know what else a sweetheart plant is really called though.
Sue I love the revised colour - it's a stunning vase and I can see why you've chosen it as 'the one'.
m
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I think it's bindweed, Rose - given the coiled stems. :thup: thanks for the link and taking an interest. :-*
(posting at the same time, m - sweetheart plant is bindweed, I believe. It used to be used in love potions.
And yes, the proper colour is SO important, I don't know where that sapphire colour came from at all, but it completely spoils it.)
I kind of like the way the the stem, as it goes into the leaf, has those strange sections to it - makes it look a little bit like old horror film special effects of disembodied brains and spinal cords which used to leap through the air and strangle folk!
There's nothing pretty about it at all.
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I've had another go at a base shot in morning light - now the pics have got purples in it that do not exist. :spls:
:help: Dear mods, please, please, could you remove the pics in my first posting?
I got over-excited and dived in with them, but they do not remotely resemble the piece.
The correct colour is of ultimate importance in how the design works.
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Did you take the original photos in sunlight and the second "Greener" ones under artificial light? If so I would suggest you might have some neodymium in the glass. It seems to turn blue in some cases and greener in others whilst being amethysty purple in daylight.
Just a thought, Sue. By the way, I reckon it is a very interesting vase - and I am not into that type of vase myself.
Ross
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Absolutely NO neodynum, honest, Ross.
(I hate neodynum)
I think what is happening is the camera is picking up refracted wavelenghts of light, because of the various thicknesses and multiple surface angles of the glass - so the colours the pic actually shows are the colours that do not exist in it.
It is practically black, with hints of (mostly) very dark inky navy blue and a tiny bit of deep olivey green.
I've turned it and looked at it in loads of different angles and lights.
There is NO sapphire or purple in it at all, in any light, HONEST!!!!
Evening light produced blue pics, morning light produced purple.
Fluorescent strip lighting, once the camrea had got itself out of yellowishness, produced a pic of the correct colour.
It has to be something to do with the light being split anyway. The odd colours only ever appear on the camera screen and in pics. The camera is lying. >:D
It's not my normal sort of thing either - but it is something quite special, and quite different.
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:24:
We are not alone, it's good to know that!
however, :hi:
We seem to have gone completely off-topic and I'm now wondering if I can bother a moderator to cafe the camera lack-of-instruction manuals and moans, :t:
so we could please, please, get back to my fabulous vase!
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Moved by one of the guilty parties. :) It's quite a vase. I'd like to see what Glen and Pamela have to say about it.
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Cathy, you're an angel :kissy: Thank-you.
I wondered if Jindrich or BoBA might have an opinion.
Given I am assuming there is a good bit of age to it - certainly pre-'60s when this sort of smoky colour became more fashionable, I really do think Czech is the most likely origin.
My reasons are threefold.
1.) the incredible complexity of the mould, the seam lines weaving their ways around the leaves
2.) the hand finished base (while not having a hand finished removal of the mould lines at the rim)
and the most important;
3.) the distinct feeling that whoever designed it was light years ahead of their time in terms of concieving it and getting it put into manufacture (compared to the rest of the world)
It weighs nearly 1.5kg.
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Sue, I'm probably way off base here ;D (and you've probably investigated it anyway) as your vase isn't signed, but it reminded me of some attributed possible Piere D'Avesn vases. However, the link I've found seems to show they are signed Lorrain, and perhaps they are always signed :-\
you need to scroll down halfway on this link and there are two vases there.
http://www.decorumsanfran.com/decweb/decoruminternetparty.html
m
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Oooh, thanks, m.
The one with the sticking-out leaves is clearly made from a very complicated mould, it's even more complicated than my bit, I reckon, so this is opening up that avenue. :thup:
Did somebody not have one of these recently, here? :-\
I'd love to see how it's finished off - would these bits from D'Avesn be well-finished on the base, but left with mould lines showing at the top, I wonder.......
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I think your vase if rather lovely Sue. Must feel good in your hand. Very tactile I would think. Wish I could help with ID but will definitely keep a look out for anything similar.
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I've just found this link Glassobsessed gave in another thread
http://www.detesk.cz/en/virtual-museum/author-objects/
scrolling down a little to Hloušek Rudolf
there are some vases which are vaguely similar - two are the correct colour exactly.
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So do you think you're closing in on an ID Sue?
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:cry:
I don't think so Nancy- the vases there (and the one further down, by Alois Metelák which is even more similar) are all superb bits of cut and etched glass - not just a humble pressed piece like mine - but I am thinking these might have been the inspiration for producing a pressed piece along the same lines.
I'm utterly convinced my vase has a Czech origin. :thup:
I could be wrong, I'm not good at pressed glass. :pb:
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The period looks spot on, your vase shouts 1930s at me Sue even if the subject matter differs. Your vase is very reminiscent of abstract floral designs produced by Daum (and no doubt others) but they would have been cut rather than pressed.
Is the consensus for the plant convolvulus then?
John
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If it was a convolvulus, I'd expect flowers. How about philodendron aka sweetheart vine?
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I'm just calling it bindweed. :smg:
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Reminds me very strongly of the "rubber plant" so commonly grown indoors.
Ross
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I think bindweed and sweetheart vine are one and the same, aren't they? Flowers simply depend on the season.
Ross, "Whoops, there goes another rubber tree plant....."
Rubber trees have elongated fat oblong leaves - they don't have tendrils and the leaves all sprout from one single stem. The leaves on this vase are heart -shaped, and they and their stems twist and turn around the piece. :thup:
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No, they're different Sue, but certainly the design on your vase could represent either. Doesn't really matter though, does it?
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No Nancy - I'm not remotely concerned about the kind of plant it is, or even if it is a real one at all.
My concern is for how great it looks... and who designed and/or made it, and where.
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Amen to that!
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I think the plant ID could be more important than you think as they go through fashions as everything does and it might help date it. I'd go with philodendron (I'm a landscaper in foggy San Francisco and obsessed with plants even more than glass!).
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Thanks, Poppy - I'll go with that as the plant quite happily. :thup:
I think, though we're looking at around the '30s.
However, Czech design in glass was light years ahead of it's time..... so "the '30s" could be more vague and flexible than I'd like it to be.
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Thanks Sue
I ADORE Czech glass. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.
:sun:
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Hello, I own one of these in a very dark green glass. These show up sometimes with spurious R Lalique signatures. Never have found out who really made it, but a very nice vase in any event.
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Yay :hiclp: I just knew there had to be another one out there!
I'm never very sure whether it's very dark green or very dark inky blue - it seems to do both shades.
:spls: some folk think they could get away with RL stuck on this?????? :24:
weird. It's nothing like any Lalique!
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Here's a photo of my green "seriously masculine" vase:
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Here's a green one listed on eBay as Val St. Lambert, with a disclaimer as to maker in the description:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Superb-Art-Deco-Depression-Glass-Vase-Val-St-Lambert-/250856797558?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a683af576
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Both of these are a decidedly green green.
So, they come in at least two colours. :thup:
But I don't know how anyone could think it was VSL - it's not finished off well enough on the body - surely VSL would have polished off any mould marks?
There are also bubbles from manufacturing in the body.
(I get mad when I see a beautiful thing like the dragon bowl defaced in this manner :grrr: I prefer Barolac to Lalique.)
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My green vase is made of glass, not crystal, so that lets VSL out...
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Is all VSL crystal? :spls:
I'm sure a Sam Herman for VSL vase I have isn't.
My smoky blue masculine vase is glass.
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Not all VSL is crystal. Their 'Luxval' line was a comparatively inexpensive range of moulded glass which was not made from crystal (though some patterns were later made in lead crystal). I haven't seen this vase in any Luxval catalogue, however, so would take the attribution with a large pinch of salt.
The vase is really lovely. I am a big fan of pressed glass and the mould work on this is very impressive. Sadly, though, I don't think it's going to be possible to get a firm attribution until either a marked example turns up or it's identified in a catalogue. While there's a fair possibility it is Czech, it could also have been made elsewhere. France, Belgium, Poland and the former Yugoslavia all spring to mind...
Have you tried contacting Siegmar Geiselberger of pressglas-korrespondenz.de? He is very knowledgeable and helpful. By making the images available to other pressed glass collectors some more information might turn up.
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That's a very good idea, thanks very much.
It does seem there are other folk who'd like to know about this piece. :thup:
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Sue this could be a complete red herring and I don't know how to check but I think I spotted a vase in a similar vein and in your colour on 'Put your money where your mouth is' on September 7 airing. However I was very distracted and failed to watch the outtake of it.
m
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:thud: Are you ok, m? Do you have a fever? :srn: Are you seeing spots before your eyes? :srn:
;) It's not like you to miss a snippet of anything! :kissy:
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Hi Sue. I tried to find a September 7 episode on Iplayer but only found September 6. Gritted my teeth and watched until the 'experts' had made all their purchases. No vase I'm afraid. But I may have watched entirely the wrong episode. I need a cup of tea now, maybe with a splash of something strong in it. Good luck!
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:kissy:
Thank-you Nancy!
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;D and well done for sitting through an entire program when I would have wanted to fast forward lol.
It was definitely aired on September 7 Wednesday and the vase was pressed, not the same decor as yours but struck me as possibly very similar and was the same colour I thought.
mmm, we'll have to wait and see if it comes up on Iplayer.
I'll try and keep a look outl.
Sue, this week is a week of birthdays and parties and house full of distracting children...my excuse :)
m
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well it's quite possibly something French but I've not managed to quite work out what yet.
Here on the link is a vase in clear frosted with the same design, looks to match Sue's pattern from what I can see, but....it has a cut and polished very thick rim, and what appears to be a foot on it.
Is it an adaptation of a mould, or a variation or a remake of an old mould? no idea.
It's acid etched mark says CRISTALLERIE ROYALE DE CHAMPAGNE in I think a small mark on the base.
From what I can find out it appears that other companies may have made glass for them which was then etched with their mark. But in this case I have not managed to find out who actually made the one listed - the one I linked to names Daum in the listing (no definite id I don't think) as well as saying it is acid etched with the Cristallerie Royale de Champagne mark, but on a post on here on paperweights, Baccarat and Art Vannes have also been mentioned with others in connection with this company. Bayel is mentioned on the Cristallerie Royale de Champagne site - I don't know what the link is though. But thought this might help.
Nevertheless, perhaps we are getting closer and perhaps it was made be a French company :) just need to find who now.
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/MANIFIQUE-VASE-EN-PATE-DE-VERRE-DECOR-FLORAL-EN-RELIEF-DAUM-ROYALE-CHAMPAGNE-/150996838403?pt=FR_JG_C%C3%A9ramiques_Verre&hash=item23281ce803#ht_500wt_1288
m
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I'm a bit speechless! Certainly the same pattern - but massively thicker with a differently finished rim and a foot...
It works really, really well in clear satinated glass, doesn't it?
Now I'm musing about it in this style, but in oplaescent glass and if one turns up, it's MINE, I'm bagging first dibs! ;D
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I thought the width of the rim reminded me a bit of some Hoffman piece, that kind of thickness.
It's an amazing design, I just love it.
m
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;) Me too.
I keep it where I can see and use it all the time - on a work surface, where I use it as a minor paper bin.
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If this is still open ...Photo's upside down...
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/254218902598
(https://www.ebay.fr/itm/254218902598)
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What a great spot Anne. Now all we have to do is figure out what a "FIVO wheel" is, so Sue can look to see if there's any signature on it!
Sue, I'd be astonished if you had parted with yours.....they're both nice, but I do prefer your colourway.
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Are you referring with 'Fivo Wheel' to the 'signature à la molette?' I think that the seller means pressed mark with that. If needed I can ask if he/she can add an image of it.
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I wonder if FIVO is something like F.I.V.O. - Federation I... Verre... O for example?
It would be good to see the mark just in case it's not clearly FIVO
m
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I did see a green one, some years ago. And Anne's found another!
There are no marks I can see anywhere on mine. The base is not a full deep bird-bath shape, but a shallow curve falling from what was once a polished flat rim. It is so worn it is hard to tell if it was polished or satinated.
The mould lines are fascinating- winding around the edges of the big leaves so that they disappear into the design. There are 4 seams.
It was not a simple mould. ;D
And then the seams are very prominent and not polished off, above the pattern, which is a bit strange, because it kind of screams "quality", :) then that lack of finish lets it down a little bit. :'(
I still love it. ;D