Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Belgium and the Netherlands Glass => Topic started by: Jay on February 02, 2006, 10:34:06 PM
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http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/30glass/main3.html
I am looking for help in identifying a group of vases (see above)
They are usually offered on e-bay as coming from Boom in Belgium, although I have recently learned that this is not correct. (Although the moulds /shapes from Boom DID go 'missing' after being transported to Bossus in 1970)
We have been able to find several pairs and groups around the east of Belgium and south of Holland. the purple shade varies from light to dark (almost black), but we sometimes see skyblue, amber, fumee. There seems to be the hand of the same artist in all the designs. (?!)
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Boom Glass (http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/30%20glass/main3.html)
I fixed the link for you - everyone use this to get to Jay's Web pages
Adam P
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Can you please tell us how you found out they are not from Boom? The mass produced soda vases from Boom are nothing like the black decorated Paul Heller items from the same factory that books and articles concentrate on. Have you ever seen one of these with a label or partial label?
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OK, Ivo. Here is the literal text' received from emabb and the exhibition/book organisers.
"
Wat betreft de vazen "Booms Glas".
Een duidelijk ja of nee heb ik niet gekregen.
Hieronder het antwoord van iemand bij wie ik te rade ging:
"Deze vazen zijn voor heel veel Nederlanders Boomse vazen. Wij hebben dikwijls aan mensen die deze vazen voor BOOMS GLAS verkopen gevraagd hoe zij zo zeker weten dat het BOOMS is. Geen enkele persoon hebben we gevonden die ons dat kan bevestigen. Ik weet dat deze vazen in Nederland heel goed in de markt liggen en ze daar als BOOMS GLAS worden verkocht. Dus voor zover wij deze vazen nagezien hebben (en ook de vazen die het dichtst bij de bekende modellen van Boom komen) is er toch steeds een verschil in bepaalde vorm of grootte enz., de oud-werknemers herkennen deze vazen ook niet direct.
Er is wel een ander verhaal dat je al eens hoort en dat ze zeggen, nl. dat deze vazen veel zijn meegenomen door schippers maar weer GEEN BEWIJS gevonden dat het BOOMS is.
Je komt ze wel vrij veel tegen en wij zouden ook graag weten van waar deze vazen afkomstig zijn.
Ik hoop je hierbij een stap verder geholpen te hebben en zodra wij meer hierover gevonden hebben, hoor je van ons."
Van de anderen kreeg ik eveneens ongeveer hetzelfde antwoord. "
For English readers...
".... the people associated with the factory do not 'recognise' these items, although they are aware that they are often 'called' Boom by people in the 'trade'. The moulds appear similar but not identical to the Boom catalogue.
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I know that the factory at Boom had an immense output and that they produced commission work, which would explain why not all models conform to the list and not all workers would be in the know. For many years Rimac items were produced in Boom - and those were all exclusives from client owned moulds. There will also have been others.
I'd stick to Boom for most (if not all) of your collection for the time being, at least until such time that you can prove they were produced elsewhere.
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I'm interested in the fact that they look so much like our melon rib vases designed by our mysterious Professor Stern in 1939, but obviously slightly different shapes. Australian Melon Ribs are irridised in many different colours, marigold, and sometimes in their "flakestone" range, but never appear in amethyst.
Stern would have come out from Europe just before the war, but I have no idea what happened to him during or after the war. He disappears from the records in 1939, so he could have been interned (like other Crown Crystal employees). What happened afterwards? I just wish I had a first name, because there were hundreds of Stern families who emigrated in 1939.
32 to 81, you say. Hmmm. Could Stern be a Belgian name? (Drawing a very, very long bow here....)
Here are a few of mine (copied across from the Cafe thread).
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-4372
It's possible they are completely unrelated, but wouldn't it be nice if they were...
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That is very interesting Ivo. Can I ask the nature of the evidence that Rimac was produced at Boom. It's a question I've also been asking!
The finish is more polished and the weight of the Rimac glass is much heavier than the rest of Boom's output though, isn't it? Was there a 'different' recipe used?
Fascinating Kathy. The design idea is certainly very similar. Some of these forms are also found from bohemian factories though, so perhaps we should be seeing them as 'semi-traditional' rather than as the handwork of a named designer?!
The rosebowl/pot-porri bowls with a stepped upper section on a bowl-shaped base are a good example I think. Virtually identical in design they can be traced to at least dozens of factories. If they are not distinctive or marked then they may well prove impossible to trace, because they are almost 'generic' to every glass producer of the period. Hyacinth glasses have similar problems with identification. :)
I've been learning more and more about the history of designs and the production of moulds. We know that glass blowers moved around a lot, and they certainly didn't see much problem in taking the 'designs' with them, or remaking moulds to replace those that had been left behind at a past job.
In general terms the idea of protecting a design internationally is a post-war phenomenon.
I am in the process of redoing my site, and there will be much more information there in a few weeks time.
One of the features on my site is a 'glass ID quiz' which reflects what I am learning about identification, and I would love to have a picture of one of your pot-pourri vases to include in the new quiz!
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mail me je telefoon# dan breng ik je in kontakt met degene die alle dokumentatie daarover heeft.
ivo haanstra één woord apestaart xs4all punt nl
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Jay, I presume you know that your
light blue fruit bowl at € 8 is
Walther SIGRID ?
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Yes, Pamela (thanks to your site, probably)
I'm learning so fast I can hardly keep the website up to date!
In fact Sigrid is probably responsible for our interest in pressed glass. We have examples in seven or eight colours, and they are all attractive (IMHO). Ruby, sea blue and lemon yellow are my favourites!
We have quite a good collection of Walther, but we are really mainly interested in Maastricht, Leerdam and Boom.
But when we see a good Walther (or Dartington/Bagley, etc.) going for this sort of money we just can't say no! :)
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Jay, perhaps YOU can correct my pages - I've put this to Leerdam but have no proof - it was just a feeling :oops:
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/deckeldosen/02520.html
perhaps because of that ABC plate which will appear next week 8)
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and how about this one:
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/vasen/02434.html
is it Leerdam?
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so sorry, did not want to hijack your amethyst thread, Jay - shall post them separately
but
I did not post my Belge amethyst here:
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/02591.html
:shock:
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On your little blue pot, Pamela...
I'm not sure about this one. I did see it around a couple of times and examined it, but I think the text seemed 'impossible'. It should be said that both Leerdam and Maastricht were cappble of producing this sort of packaging glass. But equally it could have come from the far east.
If you remind me what the text says, I may remember why I thought it was 'wrong'. :) Sorry not to be able to offer more authority.
With the green vase I can be a little more confident.
It's a design by Rozendaal for Kristalunie Maastricht dated 1931. They were mostly sold through the Dutch (version of Liberty) 'Metz & Co'
If the camera has caught the colour correctly then it may well be the version that was produced 1950-1960 in the colour that Maastricht called 'turquoise-green'.
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perhaps because of that ABC plate which will appear next week 8)
the ABC plate was an anonymous design from Leerdam issued in 1957 to celebrate the 50 year existence of the ABC = Algemene Bedrijfsgroepen Centrale. It is not rare.
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Hi
Not to hijack the thread, but this is for Cathy on her 'Melon Rib' pieces
(http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/299/shooppsvas3kf.th.jpg) (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shooppsvas3kf.jpg)
The above is clear glass with ribs and shape very similar to your pieces - I can't see it being Scandinavian, well maybe - but the mark would be known I think, and no one has seen it ref Scandinavian.
You mention Stern - well the acid etched mark to base of this is an 'S' with two lines through it.
What do you think?
Adam P
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Hi everyone,
Adam, the vase is not one of the M.R. shapes I have seen documented. There are a lot of pieces with ribs, but these Australian ones are pretty specific sizes and shapes.
Pamela and Jay - I haven't forgotten your requests for photos! You most certainly can have photographs of those items, but it will have to wait until my husband can free his camera, since mine has completely died now. :( :(
Cathy
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Hi everyone:
Jay, pics as promised. Feel free to use any you like. You might have to copy them off quickly because Tinypic is a bit unpredictable.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6441
(10" tall) (order forms state "Please make wooden mould to produce vases shape as per Mr Sterns drawing herewith branded 500. (3 sizes)
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6440
(6 1/4" tall) (Order forms state: Iron blow mould to produce Ringed Witch bowl as per Mr Stern's Bowl herewith branded A7/7. Cat No A7.)
After this, Mr Stern is pointedly referred to as "Professor Stern", so I think someone objected.
I think these are great, myself!
Cheers!
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PETER! It must be April Fool's day! Welcome back - we missed you!
As for the Booom glass issue, there is no resolve. We have meanwhile found out that a lot of the glass which was attributed originally to Boom was - in fact - made at Gobbe-Hocquemiller in Braine-le-Comte, but documentation is not available. True there is now a Boom book - but I'm not convinced it is complete. And about the many many factories which once existed but which are no more - alas, no news.
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I've reposted the latest infoand pics at
http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/index45.html
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After years of searching, a reader from our website has produced the golden tip which has led to a fascinating conclusion.
The optiek vases under discussion were not made at Boom.
They were not made at Braine-Le-Comte either.
A recent catalogue which surfaced at a flea market clearly identifies the manufacturer as Doyen, a small factory at Havre-Ville near Mons in Belgium.
I've added the new information to the pages at www.hogelandshoeve.nl.
(http://www.hogelandshoeve.nl/index46.html)
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in any case it predates 1968 when they merged with Boussu to form Manuverbel.