Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: astrid on June 01, 2011, 10:06:34 PM
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I saw this vase on ebay, and because I have a similar one. I was happy when this particular version was showing a label. Only - I have no clue to which German glasworks it might point to. From the way it was made, I assumed up till now that it was Marsberger Glaswerke (because of how the top of the vase looked).
It's a silver coloured, long label in a sort of scroll style, saying "Kristall Handarbeit" and a logo of the letters ST in a G.
Any ideas what ST in a G could stand for (the G probably for Glaswerke or Glashütte)?
Here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.de/70er-Jahre-Design-Objekt-Glas-Kristall-Vase-B-/270758931095?pt=Glas_Kristall&hash=item3f0a7d6a97
Astrid
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?????? ???????? ???????????????????
NOT RELATED to your vase ......but I did find *another* glass maker that uses those initials of TSG ???
You can see it here: http://toyo.sasaki.co.jp/e/company/history.html (http://toyo.sasaki.co.jp/e/company/history.html)
This is unworthy info related to YOUR vase, but thought it was funny that I did find those initials used somewhere else by another glass company.
That is all..
???????? :thud:??????????
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Still looking
STG might mean (Saint Louis Glassworks) or GST (Glasswork of Saint Louis)
All guesses..
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I am not finding anything ?????????????????????????????????
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STG might mean (Saint Louis Glassworks) or GST (Glasswork of Saint Louis)
No way. Could be a Gistl label?
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Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I really think it's German, which both the text of the label and the style of the solifleur vase seemt to suggest, so Saint Louis doesn't seem to fit (PS - from using the German language it could also be Austrian, Luxemburg or Swiss, of course).
The only Gistl labels I've seen look different, and they used the GG letters at that time (opposite one another), for Gistl Glas (here's an example of that label, scroll down:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Vase-Glasvase-Gistl-Glas-50er-Jahre-Fifties-/140528949876?pt=Design_Stil&hash=item20b82d9a74).
I'm sure they could have used different style labels, but usually they don't change their initials, so I'm not convinced Gistl fits either.
Astrid
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https://www.glasmarken-lexikon.de/marken.php?k=Buchstaben+ohne+Umrahmung%3BA-Z&b=stg
shows your logo - but only (paying) "premium users" can access the company info.
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I suppose, in theory, we could be considering a company formed between 1945 and 2006, since the book version of Glasmarken Lexikon covered 1600 - 1945 [although there are some entries in the book for marks / labels after 1945] and the online version covers 1600 - 2006. :huh:
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Thanks for mentioning the possibility, Wuff.
So far, membership doesn't look like something I'm willing to do. They might have this one, but that would be a first in over 10 searches I tried of unknown labels, sigs and marks. No use paying for access to something so incomplete.
Astrid
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I suppose, in theory, we could be considering a company formed between 1945 and 2006, ...
and
... They might have this one, but that would be a first in over 10 searches I tried of unknown labels, signs and marks. No use paying for access to something so incomplete.
I had another look at their web page, and their (partially difficult to read) instructions. Apart from guests they have three categories of users:
Registered users (free of charge) get a little extra info. So I can now tell that the logo was taken from a label of around 1967 - which doesn't tell us anything about the time of foundation of the company, of course.
Quota users (€ 10) will also get the name of the company - for up to 20 marks within a year: only if you actually request the info for a mark you have found, 1 search will be deducted from the quota. In other words, if you find 20 marks within one year, and request the related info, you pay 50 cents per mark ... becomes more expensive if the quota is not used up.
Premium users (€ 66 per year) get unlimited access with additional info, e.g. links to all other marks used by any given company. This will only be of interest for the "professional", I guess.
Just a thought - based on another topic I'm interested in - genealogy: several Swiss church records are available on CD, which are quite expensive, far too expensive for the occasional limited search. Several researchers have bought these CDs for parishes where they research a lot - and offer lookups (free of charge). Is there anyone on GMB, who already is a quota (or premium) user - or would become a quota user, to offer something similar? Whoever is interested in using this offer, would have to search for the mark himself (as this is the time consuming part) and submit the URL where the mark was found - so offering this service would only be a few mouse clicks (plus the € 10, of course). Refunding such small amounts of money is not worth the effort - so users of the church record lookup are invited to donate a small amount to a good cause.
Whilst helping collectors, this would also be advertising for the web page - as some collectors, after seeing a few examples of their info (without paying) may then decide to become paying users themselves.
What do GMB members feel? Will 20 marks per year found from the 15'000 marks (of 11'000 artists or companies), to make this worthwhile?
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Astrid, here is a similar design attributed to V. Hanus (http://cgi.ebay.de/Czech-glass-Vase-of-ice-V-Hanus-/270758960381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0a7ddcfd)
Is Jindrich back, please?
:girlcheer:
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I'll have a look into the Hartmann book tomorrow :X:
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Thanks for looking, Pamela. I think this basic type solifleur has had versions in Germany, Scandinavia, and apparently also Czechoslovakia. I have seen quite similar type solifleurs for instance from Marsberger Glaswerke, Ingrid Glas and Schott Zwiesel, which means that the example you show doesn't tell me as much as I'd like.
I believe the label on the double one to be genuine, which would mean a German language country, which rules out Czechoslovakia, unless the St in G would be a retailer or distributer instead of a factory (but for now I'd rather assume factory).
Astrid
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Hartmann book: GST = Marsberger Glasfabrik, Niedermarsberg/Westfalen
no further data, however, according to Hartmann name appears here first: Adressbuch der Glasindustrie 1936 (http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Glasindustrie/Adressbuch_1936)
Dirk, like MGM Marsberger Glasfabrik GmbH, Marsberg this is your neighbourhood too ?? :girlcheer:
Regarding a possible subscription of Glasmarken Lexikon: access to all my pages is free; I invest quite a lot of time and money to share my knowledge; no advertisements, pop-ups or equal income - and I've got the book: why should I pay again?
All of you show me your appreciation in one way or the other, and that's fine! :ghug:
:fwr: for Angela! :hug:
:sm:
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Thanks Pamela, for finding this one, and also for your hard work on keeping up those wonderful pages of yours.
Is that the same do you think as the Marsberger Glaswerke that used the label below? I did think the way the top of the solifleur was formed looked awfully familiar to my other MG pieces...
Astrid
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Hartmann:
GST : Marsberger Glasfabrik, Niedermarsberg
Firmendaten unbekannt
MGM : Marsberger Glasfabrik GmbH, Marsberg
Firmendaten unbekannt
Come on, Dirk ;D
:t:
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I've read half a dozen pages on the history of the Marsberger glassworks, founded in 1905 by Nordberger, and bought in the 30s by Ritzenhoff. It's mentioned as having MGM (Marsberger Glasfabrik Marsberg) as initials from the 30s onwards.
The one reference I did find to STG was the big Marsberger corporation Stadtberger Gewerkschaft, a company that mainly was into copper mines in the 19th century, but I can't find any link to them having glass production that could have been a part of the Marsberger Glasworks later on. Reading on more history, it seems there was an earlier glassworks in Fürstenburg, but that one was closed when the new one in Marsberg got started.
So, no satisfactory explanation for STG on a 60s-70s piece :(.
Astrid
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When I made my comment earlier about the different dates covered by the book and the online version of Hartmann's details, I did so with the knowledge that an "STG" mark or label was not included in the book version. And I checked for "STG" in the book because in the link that Wuff gave to the online version, the page showed "/ A-Z / stg". But clearly I have no knowledge of how to interpret what "/ A-Z / stg" really means. :spls:
Pamela correctly states that the label is shown in the book (and it is recorded as "um 1967 Etikett"). But it is listed in the alphabetic section under "G", not "S". So, I failed in my detailed approach to things by not checking for "GST" as well as "STG". :spls: :spls:
I also failed in my assumption that, because the book is "1600 - 1945", later dates would not be included. I know that is not true because I have, lots of times, seen lots and lots and lots of later dated entries in the book. :spls: :spls: :spls:
I think I will put the book back on the shelf below a large pile of other glass books and not ever look at it again. :pb:
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I did find a GST in connection with glas as the firm Glas Schoonhoven-Tiggeman in Essen, but I can't find out whether they've been in business long enough to produce this piece (also, I would still be wondering about the connection with Marsberger :huh:)
Astrid
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... But clearly I have no knowledge of how to interpret what "/ A-Z / stg" really means.
In my understanding this means searching in "letters (without frame)" for the letters S T G - all three, irrespective of sequence: I had searched for "stg" but "gst" would have resulted in the same hits. This works nicely when searching a database - but obviously not for an alphabetical listing.
If one would get on to read the additional info (paid service) it would become clear - but not by just searching whether any info is available.
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Hartmann: No additional information than given above ::)
Now investigating several 'Adressbuch der Glasindustrie' from Coburg as well as Dresden.
No GST so far; for Marsberg only MGM (family Nordheimer) in Coburg books 1929 and 1936.
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243. Marsberger Glasfabrik, G. m. b. H., in Marsberg, Paulinenstraße (PostamtTelegraphenstationEisenbahn station), Provinz Westfalen (Preußen). Fernsprech-Anschluß Amt Marsberg 6, TA: Glasfabrik Marsberg. Inhaber: Louis und Julius Nordheimer und N. Höttcher. Direktor: Louis Nordheimer.
Fabrikate: Konservengläser, Tipp-Topp und Küchenfreund, Einmachehafen, aufgetrieben, Geleegläser, Honighafen zum Zubinden und mit Gewinde, Bombongläser, Württemberger und Holländer Weinflaschen, Karaffen mit Stöpsel, Sturzflaschen, Kinderflaschen und Schnapsfla-schen, Fischgläser, Fliegenfallen, Dortmunder Becher, Tonneformbecher, Albert-Viktoria-Kaiser- und V.-Becher, Stangengläser, (süddeutsche) Harzer Pokale, Bierkrüge, Likörkelche, Weingläser, Schwenkschalen, Wasser- und Teebecher. Spezialität: Konservengläser. — 1 Schmelzofen, 14 Häfen mit Kappe, System Boëtius. Steinkohle. Schleiferei mit 10 Werkstellen. Elektromotoren 12, 7½ und 1½ PS. 80 Arbeiter. Jahresproduktion: 250 000 Gmk.
Vertreter: S. Eichholz, Düsseldorf, Bergerallee 3. (Gegründet 1904.)
Information courtesy the Glass-Study.com
Yup :spls: that is a site you have to pay for! But where can you eventually get access to such a library or rare glass material. Members are welcome to share the knowledge it contains. It needs to be paid for as I have no other income and dedicate all my spare time to making glass information available on the web. Much of which is free access.
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Thanks for the extra info on Marsberger, Frank.
It's not that I'm always opposed to paying for access to materials, but I feel ambivalent about it. I have a job, but like many members here, I spend a lot of my free time doing research, buying books, etc, which information I share freely with others on this forum without compensation for that time and money spend. People like Pamela offer far more and better info for free.
But as always, if info is really scarce, it will have some economic value. For me, if someone had for instance many German post-war catalogues with pictures available from Peill & Putzler, Hirschberg, Theresienthal, Nachtmann, Marsberger, etc, I would sign up instantly and pay gladly. But I haven't found a site yet that contains that sort of information. I've checked yours, but the search came up empty for all these German companies I collect. Please email me if you know otherwise...
Sadly, in relation to the query I still do not see any logical explanation for the connection GST with Marsberger. We seem to have enough info on Marsberger (In my experience, if a glass company uses three letters on their label, these letters stand for something, and I haven't read anything any of the Marsberger histories so far to explain the ST (G could always stand for Glas or Glashütte).
Astrid
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Frank is not making an income from this or any of his other sites (unlike many pay for info sites); he also gives much invaluable free information and 100s of hours to unpaid glass research. He does not have a paid job (for various personal reasons outside his control), so he needs support merely to keep these sites physically online not to compensate for the extensive time spent or anything else. We are not talking economic value. Frank is also one of the founder members of this site, but personal issues have meant that you haven't met him yet.
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http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,41040.0.html
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... if someone had for instance many German post-war catalogues with pictures available from Peill & Putzler, Hirschberg, Theresienthal, Nachtmann, Marsberger, etc, I would sign up instantly and pay gladly. But I haven't found a site yet that contains that sort of information. I've checked yours, but the search came up empty for all these German companies I collect. Please email me if you know otherwise...
I certainly have some of those and a crateful of WMF catalogues as well as other rare German material... not to mention French, Belgian, Spanish, Czech, Italian, Russian and American.... all in the queue to be digitised. I break everything down to individual images so that comparisons can be made easily across factories, vessel type, time etc...
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STG could be a retailer label of course. Or Gallery.
Switzerland and Austria should be considered too Stoob Gallery set up in early 70s by Peter Rath.
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Anyone consider asking Ritzenhoff at all?
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I most certainly apologize if my comments on pay sites in general were read as saying something negative about Frank and his project. I guess I merely meant to say that unless I know what I'm paying for, I tend to be wary. I applaud everyone who takes the trouble to make information about glass more and better available, be it amateur, professional, or something in between.
I certainly have some of those and a crateful of WMF catalogues as well as other rare German material... not to mention French, Belgian, Spanish, Czech, Italian, Russian and American.... all in the queue to be digitised. I break everything down to individual images so that comparisons can be made easily across factories, vessel type, time etc...
That certainly sounds wonderful! How i'd love to lay my eyes on those... . Do you take bribes to influence the processing order of your queue? :)
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Anyone consider asking Ritzenhoff at all?
I guess my nose is still a bit bothery from my attempts at getting Nachtmann to say something useful about their back catalogues, so I'm not keen on trying to get other German companies to develop an interest in their heritage... I might try Ritzenhoff if I have gathered enough courage :)
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ALL of the Nachtmann back catalogues got dumped in a skip. I have at least one that will get digitised one day...
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:spls: :cry: >:(
Throwing away old catalogues should be a criminal offense... :grrr:
But I'm glad at least one is save in your collection, Frank.
People - please. If you ever consider throwing away catalogues of German glass from the 1950s-1990s, email me instead and I'll discuss a possible sale instead. But I'm probably talking to the wrong crowd here...
Astrid
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Do you take bribes to influence the processing order of your queue? :)
Of course I do! Members can request me to prioritise ;)
The Nachtmann catalogue came via an employee who were friends with Carmen's family. My request arrived the day everything was dumped and she took just the one catalogue home with her... it was some weeks later that I heard so just too late to do anything about it.