Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Madam Medusa on June 08, 2011, 04:38:11 PM
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:help: I have purchased this from a charity shop today and since then, have been researching the web. I have found a few similarities. The rim is not perfectly level when placed upside down on a flat surface. The base stand is also not perfectly round. Could anyone put a makers name or possibly the approximate date made?? Many Thanks :fr:
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Not my strong point but it may help someone if you give width of bowl and foot .
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Hi cant tell from the pictures if its got a polished or sharp pontil scar and i cant see much wear it doesnt from pictures look georgian although the form apppears similar to georgian trumpet liquer glass from that period also the foot is very narrow might have been ground down to hide a chip at some time that would explain a lack of significant wear?? i find it hard off photographs sorry.
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Unless this was special in some way, you'd never get a makers name, and as has already be mentioned, the base looks unusually small (in diameter) for a period piece, and rather on the flat side - many of the older glasses had domed feet. Screens can be misleading, but the colour to me looks rather 'white ish'. Are there any seeds/stones in the glass? I would also say that with the straight sides to the bowl, then correctly this shape may well be funnel/conical, rather that trumpet (where the sides are very slightly concave). Look for horizontal and vertical striations on the bowl, also look for the slight 'bump' on the rim, which may be a guide to age - and remember, finally, that the Victorians copied everything ;D
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Hello all, I did not expect a response so soon. Sorry I forgot to put the measurements. :t: The bowl diameter width is 2 1/4" and is oval in shape. The rim is slightly bumpy. The foot or diameter base is 2 1/4". Paying attention to the rim, is uneven. The shape is not perfectly round and does not sit flat on a even surface. The wine glass rocks from side to side when pushed from the top. viewing the base from the side, it is clear that the base is tapered towards the stem base. I have four other wine glasses that were purchased at the same time but they are all different, but relatively the same size in height with slight variation. Two of the wine glasses have a larger diameter base 2 1/2" with a polished pontil that clearly shows signs of groove marks and wear. The other three wine glasses also have polished pontils, however, these pontils taper inwards more towards the centre of the stem. Definite signs of wear can be seen on these. Sorry if the pictures does not help. I did not put all wine glasses on my initial pictures, as stated before they are all different and felt it would be more confusing. I have attached pictures of all five since reading your comments and hope this may be of some help. Not one of them is identical throughout. I have no knowledge about these types of wine glass and any help is most welcomed. Thanks for your feedback so far. :rah: :rah:
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I'm not sure any of them have pontil marks looking at the pictures. A pontil mark certainly won't show signs of wear because it doesn't touch anything. A pontil mark is the area glass left when an item is cracked off the pontil iron. It takes three basic forms: it is a sharp area of glass; it is a lumpy but not sharp area of glass (it has been reheated to smooth it); or it is a roundish area that has been smoothed by grinding and possibly polishing.
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HI ,
I think I can say for sure that these are not georgian glasses , they dont appear to have pontil marks,they are in the style of Drawn trumpet ale glasses ,but to the eye just not right for Georgian,at best they look to be very late Victorian or even more recent, and to find 5 period georgian glasses still together after 250 yrs or so is pretty rare.
Cheers ,
Peter.
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Hello all, Thanks for your input and possible period made. I don't think the pictures help very much. :t: I have no idea on wine glasses and am solely relying on your help. I have searched through various sites with not much luck to be frank. I have checked the glasses over again and the centre of the base on all five are roughly 1/2" in diameter. This part does not touch a flat surface. Only the outer perimeter is worn. On the first picture that shows two wine glasses, from the outer base to the centre is slightly tapered and around the centre there are holes that are less than 1/4". The base diameter on these are slightly smaller than the other three. One of these glass has a small air bubble in the stem and a large air bubble on the outer part of the hole within the base. I have used a magnifying glass to look into the holes and they are both rough with jagged marks. The width of the base at furthest points on both are approximately 2 1/2". Rings can be seen from the centre of the holes to the outer diameter of the base.
The second picture is slightly different to the first two. The width of the base is just over 2 1/4" and it is clearly visible that it is larger in size. irregular in shape. From the outer base a 1/4" inwards is the only part that sits roughly flat on a surface, then descends inwards. The 1/2" diameter in the centre of the base is jagged and polished. There are 3 deep grooves in the shape of the letter K. I don't think this was deliberate.
The third picture shows two glasses that are similar. The base on both are irregular in shape. The width is roughly 2 1/2". Rings can be seen around the bases. The centres are 1/2" in width and slightly indented. This part does not touch a flat surface. Gash marks are clearly visible around the centre area. Sorry if my pictures are not too clear. All the same, thank you for your help! :rah: :rah:
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I think the solution to your glasses is that they are cheap 'pub glasses' from somewhere towards the end of the C19. This would account for their rather basic appearance, also for the flattish base, and most imprtantly of all - the wide variation in measurements. Some pub rummers and tumblers from the C19 are so unbelievably crude and of rough manufacture that you wonder how anyone would want them - the answer being that they probably had a short and eventful life, and so they were made to a price, knowing that they weren't going to last long. The customers also wouldn't have cared about the quality - they just wanted the contents. I've seen some glasses with such irregularly shaped feet that you'd think they were made by the blind (or enebriated). The 'K' mark of which you speak is the 'gadget' mark - an alternative means (to the pontil iron) of holding the glass - used especially during the latter part of the C19. In fact the mark is referred to as being 'Y' shaped, usually. I don't see anywhere that you have given the height of these pieces, but if fairly short they might possibly be dram glasses - i.e. for spirits rather than wine or ale - but failing that, then I'm unsure, and we need an expert. :)
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HI ,
I think I can say for sure that these are not georgian glasses , they dont appear to have pontil marks,they are in the style of Drawn trumpet ale glasses ,but to the eye just not right for Georgian,at best they look to be very late Victorian or even more recent, and to find 5 period georgian glasses still together after 250 yrs or so is pretty rare.
Cheers ,
Peter.
Thought one had already spoken here? :)
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my apologies to Peter if it appeared I was being a little disparaging, certainly not intended :-[ - perhaps Peter is able to comment on my thoughts re the pub glass suggestion, and use for this shape of drinking glass. :). C19 Pub glasses are (currently) one of my favourite areas of collecting, and I'm on a bit of a high with these things at the moment, so guess passion got the better of me, and I had overlooked Peter's contribution. One of the big gaps in literature - at the moment - is a lack of something really comprehensive on C19/early C20 drinking glasses........we're awash with books covering the C18, but the Victorian era (at least post 1830 ish) is poorly covered, and it's an interesting period for drinking glasses.
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HI Paul ,
No apologies necessary, pub glasses sounds like a very good description ,as to what was drunk from them , anything you like I think , what was used for what is a subject that is always very fluid (hee hee),I would still opt for 'ale' though as suggested if small possibly spirits.
Cheers ,
Peter.
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Hello Everyone :fr:
Anne(Moderator), I am not fully getting the reason for you copying the quote that was made by Peter/oldglassman, especially paying attention to the word "think", which also is in Pauls comments. I took this as not being a positive answer, :thud: but what makes me think I will get that now? :24: The comment was;
I think I can say for sure that these are not georgian glasses
just to add I think Paul.S's quote about the blind was inappropriate. A blind/drunken person? :huh2: I know a lot of blind people, I have even studied sign language and it is remarkable what they are capable of making. The rest of the comments by all could certainly attribute to the investigation process. :smg:
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obviously wasn't my day for old drinking glasses - although I imagine we wouldn't expect a sightless/very near sighted person to handle molten glass. But anyway, we'll go just for the drunks then, o.k. ;) However, I would agree with you, Madam, there is a a lot of obtuse grammar on the GMB :24:
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Peter is an expert on 17th and century glasses, but without handling such items it is difficult to be 100% certain of age.
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Paul.S,
:hb2: :hb2: Do you need a shovel? :24: :pb: :ooh: