Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: abc on June 10, 2011, 08:56:55 PM
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Any of you fine experts able to recognise this case. its 7 inches tall with a stepped or ribbed part near the foot . It has silver or gold mica and a red vein in it :help:and came from a belguim market i understand
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It could possibly be Belgian, they like curvy shapes and the colour gold (though I've usually seen the gold as bands put on, rather than as flecks). As for other avenues of research, French glass got imported into Belgium a lot too.
Sadly, only one Belgian factory got ever researched, and I don't think it's from Boom. I've looked at the very few other resources I have on Belgian glass, and I can't find it, and it doesn't match a particular style of factory I'm familiar with.
Perhaps someone else has an idea where to look...
Astrid
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The more I look at it, the more I'm starting to believe it might be French art deco. The rounded foot resembles the French vases from that period. But that's really not my period of expertise. Luckily, if it's that sort of thing, many dealers and specialists might be able to help you.
It is very pretty. I'd been tempted to buy it too despite my firm believe I should never buy anything that's older than 1950 :)
Astrid
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It's not gold; it's mica, which is silvery in appearance (though it's probably pretty colourless really), as you can tell from the squarish shapes. It only appears gold through the amber. Czech strikes me as another possibility.
You could actually make your pictures larger. I find 700 pixels for the maximum dimension gives a good viewable size. You have 125kb per pic.
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I would lean strongly towards Bohemian/Czech on this.... and also would like to see larger images of the piece.....
Craig
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here is a larger picture thanks
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the person who sold me the vase was from holland and said that he purchased it in Belguim from a market and the seller thought he had seen a similar style of the stepped stem in the design (near the base) in a Muller Freres one , although i doubt this as its not signed ,
hope this info helps someone identify it , there is a similar one on Franks Monart website saying that it maybe Stourbridge , there is also a lot of base wear, somehow i dont thing its Bohemian , maybe French ??
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For interest here are a couple of photos (see below) of a signed Muller Freres vase with silver fleck and amber outer coating. The foot is "stepped" but not in the same way as abc's piece.
The photo of the interior shows how the silver fleck (mica) is definitely silver on the inside but appears to be golden on the outside because of the amber flashing, as Christine pointed out.
abc's vase has some deeper colour lines. Whether those lines are actually coloured the same as the deep red on the foot and near the rim of my vase, I would not like to say.
Does this help?
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=15168&fullsize=1
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pid=15167&fullsize=1
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That looks much more like (real) silver foil to me Kev, as you can see from the way it's cracked open. So, no it doesn't help to ID it as Muller Freres, as mica is a much cheaper alternative to silver. (Back to the Bohemain/Czech theory?)
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I agree about it being foil and not mica on the piece Kev posted...... I still think Bohemia/Czech also.
Craig
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No help with identifying this I'm afraid but the one at the bottom of this page seems quite similar.
http://www.ysartglass.com/Ysart/NotYsart.htm
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If memory serves me correctly, that particular piece was discussed in antoher thread here as very possibly being Czech also.....
Craig
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.. looks much more like (real) silver foil to me Kev ...
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I agree about it being foil and not mica on the piece Kev posted ...
Oooh, did I say "mica"? Yeah! I did, in brackets! The brain's not as sharp these days as it used to be. :spls:
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hello can I bump this one up just in case anyone has some differing thoughts or maybe can be a little more definate ,or all we all 100% sure its bohemain , and the age would be ??
thanks guys
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The decor on this reminds me of the decors listed here as Unidentified Loetz
http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-nid-18-new-chalcedon-gold-glass-3138/detail/
I don't know how close it is, but they look pretty similar in terms of colours and making to me. Just adding it for future reference.
http://www.bohemianglass.org/katalog/vaza-nid-18-new-chalcedon-gold-glass-3138/detail/
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Although that link does carry a resemblance to the original vase posted here, the linked examples are not quite the same as the Loetz decor Chalcedon. Here is a link to Loetz Chalcedon examples, which I think exhibit a finer level of execution than any of these examples, and also are sans mica.
The Chalcedon décor is described as "Ausführung 109 - Chalcedon - Yellowish pink opal ground with colorless covering layer containing red and white veins."
The linked examples do not seem to match that description, even if you ignore the mica . I am fairly confident that the OP's example is a Czech vase, ca 1920-30. I keep having a nagging feeling that it could be Kralik production. I also think it is possible that the OP's vase and the linked vases share a common maker.
https://www.loetz.com/decors-a-z/chalcedon
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Agree the decor does not match those pieces you have linked to as "Ausführung 109 - Chalcedon - Yellowish pink opal ground with colorless covering layer containing red and white veins." description, or look the same as those examples you show, because the Op's piece and the pieces I've linked to all have clear amber ground and contain mica.
It might be in recognition of that fact, that the owner of the site denotes them as "New chalcedon - gold glass" possibly?
Quote:
'VÁZA NID 18 "NEW CHALCEDON - GOLD GLASS"
Home Loetz Neidentifikované Loetz NID 18 ("New chalcedon - gold glass") váza NID 18 "New chalcedon - gold glass"
Craig might the piece on this other glass message board thread help (see link below)? I think it's the same decor but the ground is pink (noting the Loetz description of 'yellowish pink' but possibly a coincidence that this other piece is pink ground)
If not now, it might help later as it's a different colourway but the same (I believe?) decor as the op's and those on the Bohemian glass site listed as 'VÁZA NID 18 "NEW CHALCEDON - GOLD GLASS"
Home Loetz Neidentifikované Loetz NID 18 ("New chalcedon - gold glass") váza NID 18 "New chalcedon - gold glass":
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,67845.msg377522.html#msg377522
I wonder how this will turn out :)
m
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In examining the data on the Chalcedon décor on Loetz.com, we see that the date range provided for the décor (on the Ausf 109 page) covers a span from 1907 - 1935. In a way, this date range would preclude the décor from being New Chalcedon if we examine naming patterns and date ranges used on Loetz.com.
In support of that claim, if one looks at the décor now known as Orbulin (previously classified as part of Diaspora) There are classifications for Orbulin - 1900 and New Orbulin - post 1912. We also find Cytisus - 1902, Cytisus New - 1929; Chiné - 1897 Chiné New - 1929 est.
I think the pink piece you pointed out is likely related to this piece, and also related to the OP's example, but as of now, I have lingering doubts regarding a link to Loetz as New Chalcedon. But that is also my general style of research and attributions.... Some consider me to be overly cautious, and hesitant to declare attributions until I have seen enough supporting evidence.
At a minimum, they are very interesting pieces.
Craig
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Just adding this link to another example in a different shape, just in case its useful to anyone...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-Glass-Jardiniere-with-Mica-Inclusions-c1910/362686699311?hash=item5471cfd72f:g:wAUAAOSw0VZdEgGu
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Agree with your comments on the dateline and that it might preclude the naming of a range 'new'.
My gut instinct is saying that these and the amber crackle with green ribbons are linked in some way. The style and design of some of the pieces just makes me feel so. I'm really curious to see what the outcome is! Might have a long wait.
I'm also curious about something - the pontil mark. On my 'amber crackle with green ribbons' the pontil mark is nice and polished, but it's not what I would call large at all. It's not small, not large, just what I would consider normal. Whereas I look at S&W pieces and also at Loetz pieces and French items and can see what I think of as a large polished pontil mark. I'd have thought that was a bit odd for Loetz?
The base of the bowl is also polished completely flat as well.
m
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I agree.... and we have waited 8 years so far.... :-)
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I amended my post slightly Craig, to include comments about the pontil mark and the base finish. Did you see those?
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I had not seen the amended comments. Pontil marks are a bit of an anomaly for me. I find them to kind of run a gamut of styles, even from the same maker. I tend to weigh pontils as a small part of big picture, unless of course it excludes a maker right away. To me, a flat polished base would be something that would generally rule out Loetz production. Off hand, I can not think of an example of their production with that type of base finish.
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Thanks for the link Greg.
Just in case it disappears (as so many others have on these threads given they've gone on for so long without identification), I hope it's ok if I describe the piece Greg has linked to.
It has been described as a 'Jardiniere' by the seller. It's a round bucket shaped (i.e slightly wider at the rim than the foot) vase with a height of 10cm and a width of 17cm across the bowl and only 13cm across the foot.
The decor is the same as the OP's on this thread. It is a very plain piece, straight sided. No curves, added foot or anything like that.
m
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Craig, this is an interesting piece.
Looking at it online so very difficult to tell exactly what it looks like in the hand, but online (when you enlarge the photo and look at the detail) it appears very similar to the Loetz Ausfuhrung 109 description:
http://gyujtemeny.imm.hu/gyujtemeny/vaza/8162?ds=eyJtdWxVIjoiMjA5MDcwMWQtNzM5Ny0xMWU3LWE2NGEtZjAxZmFmNmYxYmUzIn0%3D&i=6
A Schreiber vase in the Museum of Budapest collection described as 1900.
and another version here:
http://gyujtemeny.imm.hu/gyujtemeny/vaza/8161?ds=eyJtdWxVIjoiMjA5MDcwMWQtNzM5Ny0xMWU3LWE2NGEtZjAxZmFmNmYxYmUzIn0%3D&i=7
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Just in case it comes in helpful for future reference (although all these links are to pieces seemingly dated much earlier than the amber crackle with green ribbons type pieces) it seem J. Schreiber und Neffen did use both mica and the crackle effect:
Mica example here:
http://sbirky.moravska-galerie.cz/dielo/CZE:MG.U_2204
and crackle examples here:
http://sbirky.moravska-galerie.cz/dielo/CZE:MG.U_2344
and
http://sbirky.moravska-galerie.cz/dielo/CZE:MG.U_2342
and here
http://sbirky.moravska-galerie.cz/dielo/CZE:MG.U_2343
I don't know anything about Schreiber und Neffen so the time frame may not be relevant. Just trying to think around the 'who' might have used these effects.
The mica blue piece linked to above has a bun foot.
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For what it is worth, the linked examples frovided by Miranda that were suggested by the webiste to be Unknown Loetz, possibly Chalcedon, are now identified as likely being Kralik, both on the linked site, and here:
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/267924-two-vases--w-kralik-sohn-probably?in=activity
Here is a different link to a piece similar to another linked to in this thread also, but now posted in the same forum as the other pair.
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/267876-kralik-pink-footed-bowl-with-yellow-red?in=user
Craig
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https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,73535.msg408419.html#msg408419
Cross post to another version