Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on July 07, 2011, 07:51:20 PM
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I'm almost certain, but know that I will be moved if I start in British ;).......no label, and I've hunted for the back stamp and am satisfied there is nothing there (I do have known pieces that aren't marked - plus a couple that are, so I know what the mark does look like). I have examples in the quite common black, also in a shade of red, but don't see one in this blue/purple - however, the iridescence seems right, although the trailing effect seems much heavier than usual, and the base treatment is different to my other pieces (sadly there is a crack in the bottom). Height is about 6"/150mm. Picture four shows possibly the more usual shapes. Maybe because of the MH connection, this one has a near Mdina look to the shape, and as has been mentioned previously, there is some helpful information in Mark Hill's book, although no pictures. Anyone care to offer a date on this example, and thanks for looking. :) Having said all that, I hope I'm not wrong :-\ - but thank the mods. in advance for moving to British.
Ref. 'Michael Harris - Mdina Glass & Isle of Wight Studio Glass' - Mark Hill - 2006 (pages 66 - 67).
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It might be Heron
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That is not the Royal Brierley Studio pattern (though similar), the shape is not one I have seen before from RB either.
John
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thanks to both of you. Must admit I had not heard of Heron previously, but will investigate. Would agree with you John re the shape, so back to square one and will start again. Very attractive iridescence by the way.
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The base would rule out Heron.
It looks like some studio trial that wasn't to successful.
Colourway is wrong for all the studios mentioned so far.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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thanks Mike ...............being a bit of a novice, I think the shape also rather beguiled me towards the MH/Brierley connection - thus misleading me. Regarding the base - it would seem that at some time in it's life, this piece has received a fairly heavy knock - giving rise to the bad crack, and removing a sliver/wedge from the bottom - although I think that it remains quite strong, structurally. It has elements of a good pedigree - just remains to find out which one (I had even - again - thought of Alum Bay - in view of the iridescence).
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Its difficult to tell from the picture but I thought the crack was at the point where the pontil was attached.
Two of the strongest points to spend time on in helping you identify a possible maker is to concentrate more on the type of blue colourway and the finishing on the base. Iridescence can lead you up to many blind allies especially as the same type of iridescence can be used by so many different manufacturer's and studios.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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I'd hazard Phoenician.
There is a downloadable thingy of their ranges of colours here.
http://www.phoenicianglass.com/
It is a finish that looks quite like some Gozo glass, but the shape isn't right, and the surface is far too deeply textured (I've got a Gozo bit in my mitts).
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I assume the base was polished flat before its accident.
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thanks, although presently at work, so don't have access to the piece. I think the whack was possibly in more or less the centre - although believe the base had been ground/polished 'all over', as in much of the Maltese, and feel sure the base you can see was an original feature. Am sure you are right about the iridescence Mike.
Sue, the link to Phoenician is very useful, but think I'm having trouble more with the surface texture - also maybe with the shape, which don't think appears in their 'Collections'. However, my piece I suspect is a few years old now, and shapes of course change.
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I do think it's a bit older than their current collections.
I'm pretty certain it's Phoenician.
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It looks like the colour called Comino
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This piece dosent have the quality that the Phoenician studio produce.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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Their quality has improved over time - quite dramatically.
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the whack on the base could well be where the pontil rod was cracked off. I have had two pieces from Mdina in the past that were like that, where I was seriously questioning whether it was damage, but it definitely was a bad cracking off of the pontil rod. Obviosly yours may well have developed a crack since then, but it still could be just the pontil mark for the middle bit.
m
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I think that Christine's suggestion of Camino could cover the surface texture, colour, and even the iridescence, possibly. Might this factory be amenable/responsive to questions of attribution, does anyone know?
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I believe they are very helpful. :thup:
The thickness of the surface layers is also similar to the purple iridescent range they do.
There are several other colourways done by Phoenician which are not represented on their website.
Some of them are quite glorious, I should probably be snapping them up!
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I did in fact send these pictures to Malta, and today have a reply from Phoenician Glass as follows:
""Good Morning, Thanks for your query, I have shown the pictures to my colleagues who have been the glass blowers at Phoenician Glass for the past 30 years and we regret to inform you that this piece does not originate from our factory.
Regards Greta Fenech Manager Phoenician Glass Blowers Hut 140 Crafts Village Ta’ Qali""
I have of course thanked them 'afterwards' :) - so still searching for maker.
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Given the similarity to RB/IoWSG finishes I wonder if it would be worth asking at Alum Bay, Glory Art Glass and any other remaining makers on the Isle of Wight. It seems that as staff have left IoWSG to work elsewhere they have often reworked designs and finishes learnt there.
John
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Back to the drawing board - but one eliminated!
Do you think it might be worth asking Mtarfa or Gozo?
(or roping in somebody who isn't so Harris/Malta-origin fixated and might be able to offer other avenues of exploration.... :-[ )
I can say it is not Malta Decorative Glass, and I do still think it should have a Harris-dynasty root.
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As I have said before concentrating on the iridescence will lead you up more blind alleys than if you spent time on the two strongest points in helping you identify a possible maker and that is to concentrate more on the type of blue colourway and the finishing on the base. The same type of iridescence can be used by so many different manufacturer's and studios.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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I'm going by base finish and shape, Mike, not the iridesence itself - if it's not the silver chloride type, which is highly distinctive, I'm pretty clueless.
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I certainly had it in mind to aski Colin Green at Alum Bay, he has surprised me before with a confirmation, so will give them a try first. Anyway thanks to everyone for all their input so far. :)
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I'm going by base finish and shape, Mike, not the iridesence itself - if it's not the silver chloride type, which is highly distinctive, I'm pretty clueless.
I think you may have one of those pieces that may never be identified as there are just to few clues with no prominant distingishing marks or features.
It may just be a student piece from a thousand different places if so we may never know.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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Perfectly posssible, Mike - but it's still very nice - and it's not RB - it's far too thick.
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As always a prompt and friendly reply from Alum Bay................"Hi Paul it could be ours as a sample piece or could be Gozo or iow - Kind regards - Colin".
I'm a more than a bit dim on most of the Maltese and derivatives etc., and had rather overlooked the fact that IOW Studio did turn out some ground/polished flat bases in the early 80's (as discussed in Mark Hill's book). I had thought that IOW pieces showed only: snapped pontils (for the really early bits), and then coach bolt and flame marks for the later pieces. Is there someone to ask re the possibility of IOW Studio?? Any thoughts anyone. :)
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The studio has it's own forum, free to join although it tends to be a bit quiet - and the studio themselves are always very helpful indeed.
But I really, really don't think it's IoWSG - not the right shape and far too thick.
This is a pic of a small Gozo piece I have.
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As always a prompt and friendly reply from Alum Bay................"Hi Paul it could be ours as a sample piece or could be Gozo or iow - Kind regards - Colin".
I'm a more than a bit dim on most of the Maltese and derivatives etc., and had rather overlooked the fact that IOW Studio did turn out some ground/polished flat bases in the early 80's (as discussed in Mark Hill's book). I had thought that IOW pieces showed only: snapped pontils (for the really early bits), and then coach bolt and flame marks for the later pieces. Is there someone to ask re the possibility of IOW Studio?? Any thoughts anyone. :)
The guy you need to contact to eliminate Malta and IOW glass studios is Me ol mate Ron from Artius Glass
Just google Artius glass and send him an email he is always forthcoming with his immense knowledge of all these studios.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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very many thanks to both of you and I will continue the search along the lines you have suggested, and let you know how I get on :)
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As suggested, I did contact Ron Wheeler - and, as you might expect he has graciously given his thoughts on this piece - although, as he comments, we are not necessarily much further forward:
""Hello Paul,
Well now, interesting, and not easy to identify. One reason is that your image file is so large that I cannot see it in whole form on my screen (I did in fact rectify that issue :))
However as far as I can judge it does not coincide with a surface decoration which matches the shapes of the period of the shape of the design i.e. the shape is that of designs by Michael (Harris) up to around 1980 but the decoration has similarities to those produced after 1988 in a similar style to the Nightscape range designed by Mike in that year and still on the range produced at the studio (look on the Studio website).
However Tim(Harris) did produce some specials in that shape in 1993/6 so it does not preclude the making of this one.
Now my only other suggestion is that is could have been made by one of the glass makers who left and started his own studio not far away on the island. His name is Chris Lucas and traded as Touch of Glass but having been schooled at the studio (I.o.W.S.G.) all he produced was his own version of a well established product and so was doomed to failure - which he did.
He now works again, when required, at the studio and his wife is one of the Studio accountants independently.
So in conclusion you are right, it may never be positively identified. Sorry about that. However if you could reduce the file size so that I could see it in it's entirety it may help.
Hope that is of some help. (at this stage I reduced the image size)
Well personally it does look more like those I have seen by Phoenician Glass but if they say no then they should know I guess. It does not actually match those from Chris Lucas but you can never say 'never' in such cases - Other info. still stands.
However I always quote that 'it is impossible to know everything about everything and very difficult to know everything about something - because there will always be someone who actually does.
Best regards. Ron""
I have removed a very small amount of text from Ron's reply (not relevant to an id) - but the above is 99% of what he has said, and again, my thanks to him for sparing the time to reply. :)
Might I ask please that the Mods. now remove - from the subject heading - my misleading reference to Royal Brierley. Thanks.
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sorry, should have said that I do have permission to quote the above.