Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: bristolblueglass on July 10, 2011, 10:45:00 AM
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I've recently had the pleasure of photographing a pair of Thomas Webb Cameo vases. The blue one is 52.5cm and the other is 52.7 cm. I did not notice it at first as I was mostly in awe of their presence. It was only when the owner of the Bristol Blue Glass factory I work for, pointed out to me that one of them, the Aqua cased in Ruby and White vase is unfinished. It would seem that mostly all of the flowers are finished where only a few of the leaves are done. Also most of the unfinished work is at the top.
Does this give an insight into the carvers work flow? Do they start at the bottom? Are there different carvers for different parts of the artwork ie some artists only do the leaves while others specialise in flowers?
Maybe the work was abandoned after discovering a flaw of some kind? Maybe this was the carvers last piece?
Hi-Res Images
http://www.bristolblueglass.com/images/museum/thomes-webb/01.jpg
http://www.bristolblueglass.com/images/museum/thomes-webb/02.jpg
http://www.bristolblueglass.com/images/museum/thomes-webb/03.jpg
http://www.bristolblueglass.com/images/museum/thomes-webb/04.jpg
Ben
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HI ,
Would this pair be the same pair that were recently sold at auction ?
cheers ,
Peter.
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Yes. They were picked up from Bonhams in London on Friday. Though when the auction was, I have no idea.
Did you see them or do you know any thing else about them. I will be posting these on our museum website as soon as I have the description from their owner.
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HI ,
yes i did see them , really beautiful vases, Webbs cameo is another departure from my normal collecting field of 17th and 18thc glass and am lucky enough to have around 10 examples, nothing like these of course ,
for accuracy the unfinished 1 is 52.5cm and the other is 52.7 cm,
I may be able to find out a little of there history for you , I was told by an Australian friend that they had been consigned for sale from Australia,and that the owners who he knows thought they had provenance to Woodhall though nothing of this was mentioned in the auction catalogue , so it may or may not be accurate, I can if you wish try to find out a little more, it may be prudent for matters of privacy for you to contact me via email ,
cheers ,
Peter.
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Hi Peter,
Thank you for the accurate sizes. That is a very kind offer from you to find out any more about them for us. I am sure that any information would be of great value for the owner and our museum website. I might remember the owner mentioning something about Australia though I cannot be sure?
I am not very well versed in antique glass or auctions for that matter. I have been a glass blower for the last 20 years, but since being assigned the task of photographing an entire museum and creating a website for it I am starting to recognise some makers. Thomas Webb, so far interests me most of all. We may start trying to make our own Cameo in the next few years. We are currently working on a Graal exhibition for this year, so maybe next year we can do Cameo. I certainly hope we do!
Thanks again Peter
Ben
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HI ,
I will see what I can find out and probably contact you at the museum with any info , meanwhile if you need any images of glass from the 17th and 18th century for the museums website let me know.
Cheers ,
Peter.
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They both look as though they have unfinished leaves on. Take a look at the small Ivy shaped leaves on the yellow vase which dont appear to have any texture carving on them.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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Are they signed? The shapes don't match anything in the sketch books shown in Grover and Grover
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HI ,
I will see what I can find out and probably contact you at the museum with any info , meanwhile if you need any images of glass from the 17th and 18th century for the museums website let me know.
Cheers ,
Peter.
Thanks again Peter. I shall put it to the owner of the Museum though I feel he may like to show only pieces that can bee seen at the actual museum in Bristol. Though thinking about it we are getting a lot of traffic from Google for people just interested in the images and accompanying text. Maybe there is scope for a category for glass that is not featured in the museum? Its certainly something to think about.
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They both look as though they have unfinished leaves on. Take a look at the small Ivy shaped leaves on the yellow vase which dont appear to have any texture carving on them.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
Thanks Mike. Indeed you are right. I wonder what the story is behind these pieces!?
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Are they signed? The shapes don't match anything in the sketch books shown in Grover and Grover
I don't remember seeing any sort of signature on the bottom. I will hopefully find out a little bit more about them tomorrow when I receive their descriptions.
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Here are some thoughts from the owner of the vases...
As to the new Cameo Vases, I'm confident in my mind that what has happened is that the flaw in the turquoise glass was discovered after the cutters had started, which may account for why it was abandoned. I have not seen a flaw in the citron vase yet, but there may be one. The other possibility is that these were trial vases, for a new shape design, and they decided not to proceed with them. Although they are not signed, there is no doubt they are Webbs.
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Does the owner cite why "there is no doubt"?
John
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I dont think there can be any doubt whatsoever that they are Webbs.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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Why Mike? I think you need documentary evidence or a signed piece for proof, especially as these don't appear to be a known shape. Has anyone checked the pattern against known Webb designs?
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I just rely on my experience over the years. There was no one else around that produced Cameo work the same way that Webbs did. The actual carving is pure Webb and the colourways are also Webb.
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I'm not remotely up on Webb, but this sort of work is not remotely beyond the capabilities of Helen Millard - whose contemporary Cameo work, (in my not very humble or particularly experienced opinion) far exceeds the standards of anybody in the past.
I'm not saying they're not Webb, just pointing out at least one maker who could easily have made something of this quality.
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Sorry cant agree with Helen Millard being on par with what Webbs produced.
However and I do have to declare an interest if you look at the work of Terri L Colledge you are getting near to what was produced by Webbs way back then.
So close in fact that when I sadly had a piece of her work broken the insurance company would not believe that the piece was modern but was indeed a piece of Webbs.
After showing them Terris work they were astonished that there was someone as skilled as Terri capable of being able to produce such works of art.
Couple that with the news that Terri together with Richard P. Golding have been commissioned to produce a copy of the Portland Vase for the International Glass Festival in August 2012 is testament to their unique capabilities.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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I don't know her work, Mike - but I do know you have a slight personal bias for anything Okra-related!!!!!!
(I'm just teasing, hope you don't mind. I have my own biases, naturally.)
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Heres a link to some of her work. http://www.abfabglass.co.uk/page22.html (http://www.abfabglass.co.uk/page22.html)
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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Thank-you very much, Mike - I love the mushrooms!
(I'm not "big" on flowery stuff, but I can see the quality. :thup: )
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I am pleased you like.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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Heres a link to some of her work. http://www.abfabglass.co.uk/page22.html (http://www.abfabglass.co.uk/page22.html)
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
This is lovely work Mike. I really like the yellow under white. I've not really known about cameo glass for very long. Its only since I was tasked to photograph our museum that I really got an intimate look at the pieces. I have since been on line and seen quite a bit of the stunning work that Webb made in the past which is of international importance.
We make Graal glass at the moment which uses the overlay technique; bringing a post and a bubble together and then overlaying the bubble. It can be quite tricky when overlaying more than one colour or mixed colours. Is it safe to say that is how Cameo is produced? Or would a second furnace be used at high temperatures to dip the overlays?
Ben
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Richard always had 4+ colourways on the go so he would dip the pieces into the colourways he & Terri wanted. Not an easy skill to aquire as the overlays have to be so thin otherwise you dont get the definition in the carving.
Richard & Terri would normally choose a base colour and then overlay with white and a very dark purple which to all intense and purposes showed up black.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk
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I should have added that up until 10 years ago Terri had never ever done a piece of Cameo work, she was at Okra as a Paintress and she was fantastic at it. (See her enamel work on my site) Richard and Terri were sat there discussing various designs and Terri was doodling for want of a better exspression with a pencil on paper, Richard noticed and thought that if Terri could do that with pencil and paper then to take it one step further into the world of Cameo should be possible. As they say the rest is history. Terri has never received any form of training in how to Cameo its just pure British artistic ability, something which is not praised in this country loud enough.
I know she will be over the moon with all your comments.
Mike www.abfabglass.co.uk