Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: angel2 on August 23, 2011, 05:09:03 PM
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:angel:
Please :help: :help: :help: could anyone tell me the best way to get a good uranium pic, when it's lit ? I just seem to be rubbish!
Would dark background be best ? Then, what kind of light ? I have pieces that light up beautifully then, when I take the shot they don't look very bright or clear. Tell me in minute detail so that finally I might be able to get it right! :chky:
Thanks, angel2
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You need a decent size UV light and two people. Set everything up against a plain dark background, draw your curtains, focus on the item, get someone to turn off the light and immediately press to take photo. Digital cameras often don't focus well on uranium items. If you're doing it for ebay, buyers won't worry about the focus (they'll just want to assess the glow) but you MUST have a photo in ordinary light. If you can't photograph the glow and you have a decent size UV light, then what you've got is not uranium.
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:angel:
Thanks Christine for superquick reply! :kissy: :kissy: :kissy:
I didn't know whether to take them in the dark or not - doh! I have got a good powerful UV torch.
They are for ebay but I don't want blurring, I'm far too 'retentive' to be satisfied with that.
:sun: angel2
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:angel:
Hi Christine!
Take a look, I'm far from satisfied - darnation! :cry: The Bagley vase is quite good though. ;D
angel2
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The Wyndham is about as good as you'll get. Are you using a tripod?
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:angel:
Hi! :girlcheer: Yes Christine, I'm satisfied with the Wyndham. I'm not using a tripod or a second pair of hands. I'm a one-person operation. I just try to hold the camera as steady as I can with one hand while pointing the torch with the other. I've got a cheap tripod - do you think I should use it?
Thanks for your help
angel2
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The photos above look ok to me for their intended purpose. :thup:
As Christine says, digital (or even non-digital in auto-focus mode) cameras may not easily focus on uv lighted subjects. So the solution is to use a camera that permits manual focusing ... or one that has a "pre-focus" control (press half way to focus then further press to fire the shutter).
To use a "pre-focus" control for a UV shot: In normal light, and with the UV light off, press the shutter to the pre-focus position - and hold it there. Then, switch on the UV light and switch off the normal lighting. Next, press the shutter button fully to take the picture. As long as the camera is in auto-mode for speed and aperture, it should sort out those settings when the lighting is changed.
That procedure may well require an assistant to do the swithing on / off of lights, but if you have the camera on a tripod and use a desk-lamp for normal lighting, you can quite easily operate all things having set them up close to each other, whilst, at the same time keeping one finger on the camera shutter release.
It should be noted that even if the camera does not refocus when the shutter is pressed fully, the picture may still look "somewhat fuzzy". But that is often an effect of a subject under UV light. Here is a shot I took recently of a couple of paperweights (but with a digital SLR camera so I could use manual lens focusing, but other settiings on auto). I also boosetd the sharpness of the finished photo by 150% to make things a bit crisper - but see how the green uv reaction for the left-hand weight still has a slight "fuzziness" even though the bits of the weight are in focus.
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Yes use the tripod or rest the camera on a solid box, movement of the camera will result in a blurred photo. You may be able to get the camera to focus but you will need to use the macro (close up) function, look for a button with a little flower icon (sometimes my camera focuses better with new batteries).
I have never tried Christine's turning the light on and off method but I do have a large UV light here so there is quite a lot of light emitted for the camera to work with.
These photos I took the other day worked well (using daylight and then a 30cm long UV strip light). All settings are on auto, apart from macro focus and no flash.
John
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Hi there:
I have a tripod, but do not use it.....just use something like a small box to rest the camera on, and my hand. Make sure camera is on Close-up range. I find Black cardboard paper kinda has some *reflective* qualities.....so I use just some Black material and it works better.
Also, I take my pics by myself....Both hands on the camera using a small trinket box to steady my hands on the cupboard....black material, and in my right hand I just hold the UV torch between the camera and my hand.
Works for me....so far.
Sometimes super pics, and still sometimes a bit blurry.....but does that matter (NO) as it is just the *Glow* that is really needed to show, IMHO (http://serve.mysmiley.net/characters/character0066.gif)
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I use a black fabric background in a completely dark room (I use the bathroom as it doesn't have any windows), large UV light propped up, (hand-held) camera on autofocus.
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PS I would like to point out that Kev is not photographing uranium glass, but that it is a very good example of a non-uranium glow. Manganese I suspect.
Yes use your tripod and do not hold the item; that should eliminate the blur but perhaps not the slight fuzziness.
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:angel:
Thank you all so very, very much for your interest and advice. I shall try the slightly different methods a few times each till I'm sure which I'm most comfortable with. Hopefully I'll be getting improved results then and it's not only about selling - I just like to present things well if I can. :thup:
Julie, I love your bulb glass site! :girlcheer:
angel2
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thank you :)
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Hi, I find the best solution to reducing the blur is to take from a distance and crop the picture in photo editor, also in the editor you can adjust the glow if it has not shown up well. :thup:
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:angel: :nk:
Thanks, Ian. :cheers:
I've been fiddling around to see what works best for me out of all the invaluable advice here and there is an improvement but lots aren't perfect, which is what I'm aiming for. I'll try tonight again but I might have to lower my sights! :hb1:
angel2
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A UV light with more output (brighter just seemed the wrong word....) would probably make all the difference.
Mine is a standard holder for a small 'strip light' or fluorescent tube with a UV bulb instead of an ordinary one. Your local electrical supplier will have or be able to get both.
John
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:angel:
Thanks, although I'm not sure if that'll make it better. My torch is very powerful (can't remember the power but strong!). I'm aiming for very bright reaction, where possible and clarity of image. I kept getting that double, treble, quadruple image but I've definitely improved with my glass buddies tutorials! :X:
angel2
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I think I must have more luck than judgment, as I don't do 'tents - don't 're-touch pictures afterwards, and I run a one man band, so don't have a Debbie to help me - unless you have some very complex photography Won't confuse you with loads more do's and don't's, other than to comment that there are torches and there are torches (I don't mean physical size) - and better results are obtained with a torch rated at approx. 400 nano metres., often quoted as the 'near region' (nearest to the visible spectrum), and uranium will flouresce best at something near to this figure. It's possible this might be a source of your problem. The only other issue, and it's easy to make the mistake, is to hold the uv torch too close to your subject, thereby blurring or multi imaging the resulting picture. I got the impression from your pictures that this might be the case - the flourescence looks a tad over bright. However, they are quite good pics. and sure you will get better very soon. :) Has someone said about setting the camera on close up?
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:angel:
Ah thanks Paul S, you're all so great I don't know what to say ! :spls2:
Yes, I was advised to use macro mode and was anyway. I think you've hit the nail with another of my mistakes -torch too close. :-* I'll adjust that and see. Just going to try more so hey ho!
angel2
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also in the editor you can adjust the glow if it has not shown up well.
I think if you have to do that, then you probably haven't got a uranium glow
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:angel:
Well, I've had another go with very mixed results but of course, different glass will have different uranium content. Trouble is, they light beautifully with the torch just in daylight but still struggling a bit to capture it. I'm just going to practice because as they say, it makes perfect!
angel2
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it's also possibly you're shining the light source too much 'head on' - thereby producing the reflected glare shown in these latest pics. Try diffusing the light a bit - maybe shining the torch from the side so the camera doesn't see the reflection - or perhaps shining the torch light through some transparent material to kill some of the shine - which I guess is really the purpose of a tent. But pic. No. 2 is good. :)
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:angel:
Thanks Paul, :thup: that's another tip for me! Here's living in hope! :X:
angel2
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As Christine said earlier, my photo of paperweights under UV did not include "uranium glass" items. The idea there was just to show that the UV reaction can be captured with everything in focus, even though the green glow may seem to be "fuzzy". But here are some examples with a piece with "uranium glass" in it - showing that even with a digital SLR camera, "hoped for" results may not be easy to obtain ...
a) The item in normal room lighting (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9254)
b) Same item under UV (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-9280)
Both images from a Nikon Coolpix 4500 (non-SLR), on auto settings. The UV shot was taken with room lighting still on and the image cropped and reset onto a fully black backround via photo editing. The UV colour in the photo is reasonably close to what I see with eyesight.
The two images below were taken with a Minolta digital SLR, manually focused lens, and exposure settings on manual. No room lighting. Same UV light as with the Nikon shots. For the first photo below, the camera indicated exposure settings were correct - but the UV green is far too bright (well over exposed). For the second photo, the exposure settings were adjusted to be "well under exposed", and gives a better colour for the green. However, the green is not as good as my shot with the Nikon on auto settings and with room lighting!
So, for anyone struggling with UV shots, I say don't worry, it's not always easy. Even an expensive camera with full manual controls may not give good results if its "correct exposure" indicator is trusted. Experimentation is needed, trying all or many of the suggestions in this thread. :)
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:angel:
Thanks Kevin. Just taking grown-up daughter to hosp. for tonsils out. Reply more later.
angel2
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:angel:
Yes, Kevin, it does look like I'm not a total moron and that results can be decidedly mixed. :-\
I was a little bit confused with your message though because you seem to be talking about 4 shots - 2 one camera, 2 t'other but there are only 2 shots. I'm really pleased with all the help you've all given me and you personally are obviously very knowledgeable. It's surprising though because one method might work reasonably with one item, not another but a second method does almost the reverse.
:sun: I'm much better informed now and I'm sure will make a better fist of it overall! (Any other tips always welcome and gratefully received). :hiclp:
angel2
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He is, the blue text is links to different photos
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:angel:
Ah ha! Thanks Christine. :thup:
Kevin, my little 'point and shoot' is a Nikon Coolpix S550 and I'd be happy with the result obtained with your's. That's another trick for the list then, editing onto a black background. I haven't the first idea how to do that but I'm going to give it a go! ;D
angel2
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Kevin, how do you edit to make the background black? Do you just take the brightness down then crank up the contrast a little? That's prob. all I would do.
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To change the background it depends what software you have and if the object has a definite outline. What are you using? If it already has a definite outline then you can "flood fill"/"bucket fill" the background. Otherwise you have to help it find the outline using one of the tools and possibly tweak it. For the basics I just use Picture Manager which won't do this. For more difficult things, like this task, I use GIMP which is free to download.
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As Juli has said, it is possible to "Flood Fill" a background as long as the main object has an outline that does not contain the same colour as the original background. Even a pixel or two identical to the background will result in a "flood fill" causing "flea bites" at best and complete disaster at worst. Also that method only works if there is only one background colour or there are are clear blocks of differing colour.
I rarely obtain a picture with a single colour background - even when using a seemingly white surface! Too much dust and stuff around, not to mention all the subtle colour differences in paper and materials.
So the answer is (again as Juli has suggested) to use editing software that has a "Marquee" or "Lasso" or "Magic Wand" type of tool. This allows you to select the outline of the subject and then use "copy & paste" to crop it and place it in a new image layer, which has its backround colour preset or "flood filled" prior to the pasting.
Personally, I have never found "Lasso" or "Magic Wand" (both semi-automated processes) to be good for anything with varied detail in the subject edges. I tend to rely on free-hand use of the tool often known as "Polygon" or "Polygon Lasso", which is a bit like sewing an edge around the subject ... click for start point, move cursor a few pixels along the edge, click for position, move cursor , click, etc., then a last click to join up at the beginning. The process is either relaxing or irritating, depending on personal mood of the day. But it can be very annoying when you get almost to the end and then click in the wrong place or make a double-click, especially having already made several failed attempts. ;D
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The best background you can use for blacklight UV photos is black velvet. I learned this from the photographer that did the photos for my book on vaseline glass. Yes, for decent pictures, you have to have a tripod and be able to set your camera on a manual setting. TURN OFF THE FLASH!
When you do a manual setting, the camera will continue to take in light until it reaches the manual setting you have put on the controls. This will keep the shutter open for several seconds. That is why the tripod is essential. (they are not that expensive....find a used one?)
If you are not using a long fluorescent bulb, and are using a torch instead ("flashlight for the USA readers! LOL), try wobbling the light around a little bit, it spreads the glow and gives a more 'even' result so you don't have hot spots. This will not work if you don't have a tripod, because moving the torch with one hand and trying to hold the camera absolutely still on a timed exposure with the other hand is impossible.
Buyers on ebay are only concerned that it does glow a bright neon green. They don't care if it is in focus. It is best to put the 'normal daylight' photo as your main thumbnail photo on your ebay auction, then have a blacklight photo as one of the other photos available for viewing. One of my absolute pet peeves is when a seller takes only one photo and it is a UV blacklight photo. If I am going to bid, I have to know that the glass I am buying is yellow in normal room light. Green uranium glass, yellow uranium glass, burmese glass, custard glass....all contain uranium, and all look a bright green if only one photo is shown.
The black velvet also works very well for taking the 'non-UV' photo. Here are some photos I have taken using these methods:
(click on any little picture to see the UV photo next to the regular photo)
http://www.vaselineglass.org/blacklight.html (http://www.vaselineglass.org/blacklight.html)
When you are doing the manual setting, try different settings that let the light in faster and slower. I usually take a range of 3 or 4 photos until I get just the right combination. There are a lot of times I will take upwards of 20 photos, just to get the perfect exposure. Even with a tripod, the slightest movement when depressing the shutter (or releasing the finger after pushing the shutter) can cause a slight blur.
Regards
Mr. Vaseline Glass