Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: ju1i3 on August 28, 2011, 08:08:43 AM
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I went to a National Trust property recently that had the dining room table laid with period settings including small vases at each place. I didn't think that looked very authentic so I asked the attendant who told me they were put at each place when dessert was served. I have never seen such a thing and especially have never seen small vases like this for sale (some must still be around if it was common practice). Has anyone heard of this or seen the small vases? They were clear glass about 5 to 6 cm tall.
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Do you have a photo Julie? It sounds like you are talkng about small dessert comports perhaps with liners so crushed ice coukld be put under the dessert to keep it cool.
Ross
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No, I don't have a photo. Photography wasn't permitted. It was definitely a flower vase with a narrow neck. They were put out with the dessert but not a part of the dessert.
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Maybe it was just a smart(as in cunning) method by the caterers so the waiters knew who to give dessert to and who not to?
Ross
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Why not email the National Trust - someone there might have more info? It's interesting!
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o.k. found it Julie :) You don't mention the particular 'period setting' that these 'vases' were associated with i.e. Georgian/Regency or perhaps Victorian/Edwardian - it might possibly help (which Trust property was this??) I've looked throught the books and am unable to suggest what these pieces might have been - in my opinion they are too small for custards and jellies (my shortest custard is something like 2.13/16" - 72mm) - and you were told anyway that they were not part of the dessert food. Epergnes were common during the C19 - particularly as table centre piece arrangements - and they came in multiple branch versions as well as single stem options, and whilst your 'vases' are obviously not epergnes (yours are way too small), it is possible they were intended for small posies. Did the attendant describe them as flower vases, or is this only your interpretation?? If you tell us which property, I think we'll get you the answer, eventually :)
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Hi all
my mum works at the national trust Oxburgh Hall (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-findaplace/w-oxburghhall.htm)
So may be able to get an answer reasonably quickly from the national trust. Let me know which property and i will see if she can get the answer
michelle
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now we know the source of all your recent old drinking glasses Michelle - may I have some too :24: :24:
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shhhh Paul dont want everybody knowing :thup:
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It was at Uppark. I called them. Still awaiting a call back.
The table was laid and at each place was a little clear glass vase (posy vase? - I don't know what makes something a posy rather than just a vase) with flowers in it. I asked the attendant and she said they were put at each place with the dessert. I must admit I was a little skeptical as I'd never seen anything like it. She assured me they consulted historical sources. Hmm.
I don't know what time period the table setting was based on. The house was built in 1690 but as with many of these houses it went through lots of changes and fashions and residents.
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quote from Julie ...."(posy vase? - I don't know what makes something a posy rather than just a vase)".........don't we tend to think of a posy as being a really quite small bunch of short flowers?? i.e. a posy of violets or primroses - aka dinky - as opposed to a bunch of tall tulips or daffs.
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I think I might have some more info. Uppark referred me to Flora Domestica by Mary Rose Blacker. The only thing in that book I could find that's close is a design by John Perkins in Floral Decorations for the Table, 1877. The description of "small glass dishes with cut flowers" as part of an elaborate layout sounds the closest. A small glass dish could be anything! This is an image from the book http://nttreasurehunt.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/flower-power/ although not from Uppark. In this image for the pot of flowers they used "Sevres meat juice pots". (even they couldn't find something authentic to use?) At Uppark they were clear glass vases which I suspect are modern and not even reproductions.
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I took this pic (very hurriedly, as Michael was dragging me out the door) in the Ulster Museum when I was there last October, because I'd remembered this thread (then couldn't remember how to find it).
There was a full table setting laid out, under the floor, with glass over the top, and there seemed to be posy vases as described here. I didn't find any info about any of it.
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hello Sue - regret I don't see any posy vases in your picture. I do see wines or cordial glasses.......a single candle stick with a few drops.........and on the plates are six sided (hexagonal) jelly glasses (possibly Georgian in date - and similar to the attached picture. I suspect the whole setting is C18 in date.
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ok, I didn't recognise the glasses at all, yes, they were hexagonal.
I merely remembered this thread, saw the table setting and grabbed a quick pic before being dragged away. This bit wasn't with the main glass collection. I have to confess I really didn't like the table setting.
Glasses for jelly???? Yuk.
(sorry, this entire forum is currently giving my memory for food serious indigestion. Why do you all keep harping on about the sort of disgusting stuff I was (quite literally) force-fed at school?)
:-X :-X :-X :cry:
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Bl**dy H*ll Sue, were you really force fed? What awful school did you go to?
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sorry you don't like jelly Sue - used to be one of my favourites as a child (preferred the lime flavour, with ice cream). Jellies were commonplace on tables of the affluent from the early C18 and even into the beginnings of the C20 - although the 'jelly' they contained was nothing like the substance we might be eating now. Most were round at the rim - quite why a minority were made with hexagonal rims I haven't a clue - just a fashion fad I guess. Hope you enjoyed the remainder of the museum visit, and I think it's very cruel of disinterested partners to try and ruin a days outing just because they are 'philistines' when it comes to culture. ;)
But back to Julie's question - and it's disappointing to think the the NT are using fakes, or modern repro's - they can't fool us GMB members, and I might just go to Uppark and take a look myself this summer.
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Michael wasn't disinterested - he was trying to get me onto the boat home!
He had managed to engineer us having a couple of hours in Belfast, in the afternoon (the Museum doesn't open on Saturday mornings) just so he could take me there. I have wanted to go for years to see their permanent contemporary glass collection.
It's wonderful! And it's beautifully displayed.
Nancy, I grew up not too long after rationing, but my school hadn't caught up. There was a zietgeist of not wasting any food.
School dinners were compulsory and you were not allowed to leave anything on your plate. They were also engineered to make use of the nastiest, cheapest ingredients. I'm sure the soup was just washing up water.
Teachers would hold your nose and spoon feed you, while admonishing; "Think of all the starving children in Biafra who would love to have this!"
I'm not saying what school I went to. That's "The Edinburgh Question" Nancy, you'd know it and your opinion of me might be adulterated - I'm really not a typical former pupil. >:D >:D >:D
I got excused the semolina! (It resulted in projectile vomiting when forced into me.)
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Well I can understand how experiences like that could put you off certain foods for life. Could you imagine that happening now without social services, the police etc getting involved? Ha! Oh well. I never had that experience fortunately and it didn't seem to matter that I wouldn't touch the prunes and lumpy custard, or the semolina if I remember rightly.
Anyway, glad you made it to the Belfast Museum!