Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: mrvaselineglass on February 26, 2006, 08:08:54 PM
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OK, you Davidson Glass sleuths and detectives......got a question!
take a look at this link:
http://i8.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/4f/ca/5d_1_b.JPG
I just won this auction (the auction just closed today). I also have this bowl without the attached metal frame.
I know that this is pattern No. 269, registered in 1913 and that Davidson made it for something like 70 years. However, I did not think that Davidson made the vaseline/uranium color in yellow for anywhere near that long.
In looking at Angela Bowey's article on Davidson, she shows the blue service in this color:
http://www.glass.co.nz/533040.jpg
and the text that goes with it:
This design (left) by Davidsons is clear blue without the pearline white edge. It was introduced when "pearline" was becoming less popular in 1908. Its registration number was 533040, and this number was stamped into the moulds, so it can almost always be found if you run your finger gently over the glass. It was produced in several colours (clear, blue, green, amber) and in vast quantities over a 40 year period, from 1908 to the 1940's. In later years the pieces often had chromium plated attachments.[/b]
What time frame was "LATER YEARS"??
By the way, I have also seen a photo of this pattern in a double marmalade that was PRIMROSE PEARLINE! (I just can't get the owner to sell it to me!)
Mr. Vaseline Glass
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Snap, well almost. I have one of these in the uranium glass but mine is in an epns stand (a lovely snug fit so I reckon original) with a handle and what I reckon is the original spoon. Mine has Made In England stamped in the middle, which sort of spoils it a bit, better covered with the jam/jelly!
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i have a small marmalade, with the MADE IN ENGLAND in the middle, with EPNS stand also, but was more specifically asking about the permanently attached metal base, which puts it at a later production. I am trying to figure out WHEN they started attaching the metal permanently!
Mr. Vaseline Glass :D
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Dave — It is something of a mystery, as Chris & Val Stewart, in their recently published Davidson Glass — a history, can only date it to 1919–1939. I assume from this that they have found no mention of it in what records have survived.
Certainly Davidson made only a few styles in yellow uranium / Canary glass, your 269 dish, the 695 dish, and the 279 and 279D "column" vases.
Bernard C. 8)
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... and, coincidentally, I have just received (half an hour ago) a most useful email from the secretary of the Pewter Society, which narrows down the date of my pewter mounted Pyrex casserole from 1921–53 from Jobling's Pyrex mark, to just 1926–39 from Viner's mark on the pewter stand, a reduction of over a half.
It doesn't often happen, but it is great when it does.
Bernard C. 8)
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I've got this one - in pink of course 8)
http://www.pressglas-pavillon.de/schalen/03115.html
maybe replica? there are so many in this pattern lately :evil:
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I have this pattern in green and blue with a slightly taller stand as well (not uranium green as far as I know, although not tested it with UV yet);
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-225
http://yobunny.org.uk/gallery1/displayimage.php?pos=-281
I did see a very pale pink set listed on eBay earlier today, which was suggested to be by Laura Ashley, so are they doing repro's of this pattern I wonder?
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Anne
Both of the ones you show have the hole drilled, mine is attached to the bottom ring. another variation!
Dave
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Dave, how is it attached? Glued or what? I've not seen one with a stand that doesn't have the hole with a screw through into the base like mine.
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Anne
I have not personally handled THIS one, as it has to come from Australia, but have seen others. they are crimped onto the snap ring on the bottom.
http://i3.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/4f/43/05_1_b.JPG
Dave
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Ahhhh I see, thanks Dave. I'll keep my eyes open for one so I can inspect it closely. :)
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The bases like Dave's are also glued with a sort of Polyfilla looking stuff to stop them moving, that has usually started to deteriorate by now, so you have to be careful. I have a sugar bowl with this sort of base and my lampshade bowl has its rim polyfillaed as well.
I also don't think they have been reproduced, as Dave says they made this pattern for 40 years. That's lots of bowls. You have to admit the girly pink version could be Laura Ashley!
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We made many, many thousands of this pattern at Davidsons so it is not surprising that there are still plenty around.
I've written about metal fittings more than once here but offhand I can't remember where.
Adam D.
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OK, I got the dish in the mail today. The EPNS base is just wedged on the bottom. It does not appear to be glued or cemented. The other one I have without the base does not have a bottom snap ring that goes inward towards the center. This one appears to be the same. It is just firmly on there. I am not going to try to remove it. I took it outside so it would be in more natural light. Here is a pic.
www.vaselineglass.org/bowldragon.jpg
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I hope your dragon is tame!! He wouldn't like it here - far too wet and windy! Your bowl is the big one, I'd assumed it was the individual size from the original photo! It's lovely,.
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:!:
Hi guys,
am new to this forum but have a huge collection of uranium glass.
Did you know that it is still fairly radioactive, with about 15 disintegrations per second!
I have boxed mine up and put it in the garage instead of having it in the sitting room.Last hting i need is homemade radiotherapy!
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When we bought our pet dragon, dear wife said she wanted a "PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON", (from the old Peter, Paul and Mary song), so had the concrete lawn ornament people paint it purple. It is solid concrete, comes in three pieces and is very very heavy!
now, on to BIOMEDBABE:
Feel free to send me all of your boxed up uranium glass! From your name, I surmise that you are in the medical field, and have had someone test your uranium glass. I, too, have had my glass tested. I took samples from 1840, 1860, 1900, 1920, 1960, and present day glass to the Nuclear Safety officer for the state of Oklahoma, at the University of Oklahoma, USA, and had it tested. The mand that did the testing was Dr. Paul Skierkowski, Ph.D, a Certified Health Physicist. Dr. Paul tested the glass in his spectroscopy lab, using a germanium-lithium semi-conductor detector to determine the emission record of the radioactive component in the glass and a geiger counter to measure the type of radioactivity being emitted. He explained that the nuclear species causes the radioactivity, the mineral species is responsible for the color. The tests showed that the primary resulting peak was the standard emission peak for protactinium-234. All of the glass tested was a very high-energy beta emitter, with a peak of 1.001. The analyzer finds the center of the peak, wich is actually a couple of channels wide, and graphed the emission record. Every piece that was tested emitted the EXACT same distinctive fingerprint for uranium, regardless of its age, manufactuer, or intensity of color.
Protactinium-234 is a beta emitter, which dissipates in 14-18 inches. It can be blocked completely using glass (such as putting the glass in a glass hutch or display unit. The geiger counter registered the radiation clicks up close, but when the geiger counter was set to the proper sensitivity level (and accurately calibrated by Dr. Paul), at 18 inches, the geiger counter showed only normal background levels.
We are all exposed to radiation daily. Even without having uranium glass in the house, the normal person gets about 360 millirems per yer. That is 0.0360 rem per year. a lethal dose of radiation is 500 REMS over a few hours time.
TIME, DISTANCE, AND SHIELDING was Dr. Paul's advice. Keep it more than 3 feet away from you, but he said that the amount that we are exposed to is minimal with vaseline glass.
I would not have gone into all the scientific explanation, but thought I could head off a disagreement in this fashion. I took this info from an article my wife wrote (who is also in the medical field and just freaked out when I told her it was radioactive) and she insisted that the glass be tested if it was going to be in her house. So, we went to see the Nuclear Safety officer for the State of Oklahoma. He assured her through testing of various samples, that it was OK to have it in our home.
Here is a picture of where I am currently typing this message and the glass that is around me:
http://www.vaselineglass.org/STUDYLG.jpg
I have vaseline glass (about 500 pieces) to either side of me, with no glass shielding. However, it is more than 3 ft away from me on both sides. Beta dissipates after 18 inches.
If you are still concerned, please let me know what glass you might have for sale in the future! I don't sleep with my glass, or carry around a pound of vaseline glass marbles in my pocket 24 hours a day, but I also think the glass is way to beautiful to box it up and put it in storage.
We can agree to disagree! 8)
Mr. Vaseline Glass
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TIME, DISTANCE, AND SHIELDING was Dr. Paul's advice. Keep it more than 3 feet away from you, but he said that the amount that we are exposed to is minimal with vaseline glass.
Mr. Vaseline Glass
Sounds like good advice to me, but I did wonder about a Lillicrap's Hone that I have. This was featured in another link in which Bernard wrote a tremendously informative article about the object.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,3950.0.html
These hones were used to sharpen razor blades. Imagine using one of these for years to do this and the possible side effects of continually scraping a blade across the glass and then shaving, at a time when geiger-counters had not yet been invented. May be it was more a case of 5 o'clock GLOW rather than '5 o'clock shadow' :mrgreen: I bought the hone out of interest thinking my son would like it, because of the local historical link, but he won't have it in the house :roll:
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Anne
the radiation passes through or bounces off. it is not 'absorbed'. You can put liquid in a vaseline glass container and while the liquid is in there, it has radiation exposure, but when the water/liquid is removed, you can test it for radiation, and it is just background noise. the razor would be the same way. the razor would be exposed to the sharpener/hone, but once removed from the area of the glass, it no longer is being exposed to radiation. Just thought you would like to know!
the population of the world has been indoctrinated for several generations regarding nuclear power, radiation, and the dangers of it. That is a good thing. However, there is lot of unfounded speculation as to the effects (i.e. ANYTHING RADIOACTIVE IS BAD, BAD, BAD). We are exposed to radiation from the sun every time we go outside. People in Denver, Co., are a mile closer to the sun (i.e. more radiation - thinner atmosphere), yet the cancer rate is no higher there than a population at sea level.
Another good one: "glass workers died of lung cancer from working with vaseline glass during the victorian era....that is why it is not made any more." that one is my favorite! Radiation affects the thyroid gland first. that is why iodine is the primary initial preventative when someone has received a large dose of radiation. yet, the rate of thyroid cancer is never mentioned. Lung cancer deaths were higher then, due to no medical treatment. If you got cancer in the victorian era, you died. plan and simple. There was pollution, heavy smokers, industrial contamination, etc.
With all the government regulatory agencies out there today, the government would not allow it to be made today if it was dangerous. there are glass workers at Fenton who are exposed to it when they make the glass, yet they are still being allowed to make it. Why? because there is an acceptable level of radiation and they are not exceeding it. I have toured the Fenton factory, and no one is wearing radiation badges to show how much exposure they are receiving. Beta waves have a very small risk, and over 98% of the radiation coming off of vaseline glass (molden or solid) is Beta.
Like I said....send me that bad, bad, glass! I will properly 'dispose' of any unwanted samples.
Look at a smoke detector....it says "caution, radioactive device -- dispose of properly." on the label. there is a little gizmo inside that emits alpha wave radiation (which can be blocked with a piece of paper). proper disposal of a damaged smoke detector? throw it in the trash!
The fiber mantle on a LP/propane camping lantern emits more radiation by 3X than vaseline glass does! Yet, I have never heard of campers dropping like flies from thyroid cancer!
Mr. Vaseline Glass.
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Thanks for the replies.
Think I will hang onto my glass for the time being although at a distance.
Yes I do work in medicine-nuclear medicine!My glass emits more than I am exposed to at work,hence the decision to protect family.Maybe i am being overcautious but it means I can now display my Chance glass.
Liz
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Liz, another site you can explore is: http://www.1st-glass.1st-things.com/ where the topic of uranium glass is covered quite extensively. Does probably go over what Dave has mentioned though.
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I am not an expert in anything scientific, however, back in the mid 1990s, I corresponded with a retired professor who was an expert in radiation (he devised circuit principles for the Geiger Muller tube 40 years ago). I asked him if it was safe to have vaseline glass since it is radioactive, and gives off higher then the normal background radiation?
His answer (condensed version) - Background radiation varies with height above sea level, barometric pressure, your house construction, location and from day to day.. etc etc. However - vaseline glass in its normal state has the atoms bound within the molecules. As such, it is SAFE. The only way that it could become a problem is if you broke it or ground it up. For it to deteriorate under normal conditions, you'd have to wait around 1000 years. He reckoned that you get more radiation from many a domestic TV set than you do from vaseline glass. Even brazil nuts have higher radiation! (It seems the soil in Brazil where they grow has a high level of radiation from the rocks. The radium is absorbed through the roots into the leaves and nuts. He says they are perfectly safe to eat. No problems there!)
You may want to disagree, of course.
Glen
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Radiation itself is different to a radioactive material and the radiation will be emitted by particles of the material. Much as a magnetic field around a magnet, except that radiation tends to travel in a straight line. With a hone, sharpening a knife blade on it will cause microscopic particles to be worn off and these could be airborne and inhaled. Not a particularly serious risk but no point in adding to the exposure, so view it but don't use it.
Man has managed to increase the radiation we are exposed too, but again it is not the radiation itself that causes the problem as the aerosol particles that are released into the environment by manufacturing and mining processes. This is what was spread across a third of the planet following Chernobyl. Safe nuclear energy is not possible because the cost is too high, as long as nuclear power stations are sited away from centres of government and finance the risk is regared as acceptable as it will only affect ordinary people.
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These hones were used to sharpen razor blades. Imagine using one of these for years to do this and the possible side effects of continually scraping a blade across the glass and then shaving, at a time when geiger-counters had not yet been invented.
If my memory serves me correctly, I think you are more likely to die (or at least be ill) from those old anthrax shaving brushes. :shock:
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I was going to get all my mercury amalgam fillings taken out, but the dentist said the process of removal to refill with gold or ceramic would expose me even more - ahhhh
I have to get a perspective and say I am not going to be afraid of low level beta rays that have mostly fuzzed out to background noise over 120 years when I have poison in my actual face.
Now my mobile telephone, I use a wireless earpiece for that now :!:
Adam P
Mr. Vaseline Glass - I love your office - also I know this (below, I bought some the other day) is Davidson Yellow Pearline but forget the shape number (I have no specific books on Vaseline or Davidson as yet)
(http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/5016/vaseline4ht.th.jpg) (http://img424.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vaseline4ht.jpg)
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Davidson called it 1891 SUITE. The Americans call it LADY CAROLINE. There has been no Rd. number discovered for this series.
Adam: If you are looking for a good book on vaseline glass OR on Davidson glass, may I be so bold as to recommend mine? It currently shows more DAVIDSON PRIMROSE PEARLINE in color photos than any other book ever published. I currently don't have any for sale, but they can be found on ebay. There is also a chapter on Davidson in the book.
VASELINE GLASS: CANARY TO CONTEMPORARY
Just put that in your ebay search engine and you can find a copy. There are usually a couple on ebay every week.
Here is a link to an independent review of my book (honest, I did not pay her a thing to write this!)
http://www.vaselineglass.org/review.html
Regards
Dave
aka: Mr. Vaseline Glass
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Hi,
David555's piece is most definately not the 1891 suite. It is a No. 243 basket and was introduced around 1890-1891. The 1891 suite was Davidson's hobnail design (RD 153858, August 1890). For many of the Davidson yearly suites, the design was registered in either August or September of the previous year.
May I recommend our book on Davidson called Davidson Glass a history. It is a detailed history of Davidson from 1867 to 1987. Details can be found at www.cloudglass.com.
We will also be publishing a comprehensive Davidson identification guide later this year.
Regards
Chris
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Dave — I can only back up what Chris says. Stewart & Stewart is a superb work, and I regard it as the definitive reference on Davidson. Indeed I would go so far as to suggest that any historian of British glass who is not familiar with the book is at risk of becoming out of date very quickly. Same applies to Reynolds and Timberlake, except that Chris and Val have included a wealth of material that gives great insight into into the industry as a whole.
You may have noticed that I referenced Stewart & Stewart twice in a recent contribution to the Lillicrap hone topic, on the two subjects speed of production and taxation.
Bernard C. 8)
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Thanks Dave, Chris and Bernard
I think I shall buy both of your books - I have long shelves waiting - Bernard, as always I take your recommendations on board, I will be looking for Stewart & Stewart / Reynolds and Timberlake on Amazon and Bookfinder.Com
Adam P