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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Tezlar76 on November 12, 2011, 05:30:20 AM

Title: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated ID = Josephine
Post by: Tezlar76 on November 12, 2011, 05:30:20 AM
I recently purchase this vase and was hoping someone with more knowledge of glass than I have, could identify the maker. I was thinking maybe Loetz? Maybe Bronce Glatt??? I appreciate any info you may have to share.
Thank you all for your time
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: carolglass on November 12, 2011, 07:22:25 PM
Welcome to the board Tezlar76, such a lovely item and your pictures are great. Some one will be along to point you in the right direction at some stage, in the mean time try looking on- www.bohemianglassandmore/home or in the search facility type in Loetz and that will bring up heaps of threads for you to look at.
Again, welcome and enjoy, regards Carol
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Mike M on November 12, 2011, 10:03:11 PM
Hi

Its very hard to tell these apart it could be  Loetz Bronze Glatt -I don't have the pattern book to hand
but it looks more like Josephine Bronze Cypern to me and the shape is right for that -makes it a little earlier c1890

cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Tezlar76 on November 13, 2011, 03:48:45 AM
Thank you, Thank you, Carol & Mike-
 Carol for the warmest of welcomes and Mike for the invaluable lead.

  Mike, If you have any more info on Josephine Bronze Cypern, I would love anything you can share. Seems I'm not coming up with much in my initial searching.

  Again, Many thanks!!!
Ashley
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Mike M on November 13, 2011, 11:15:53 PM
hi

Josephine glassworks

AKA Josephinenhutte - German one of the biggest glass works in its time about 1800-1950. Almost totally unknown outside Germany and sadly only document well there. There is a great book by Stefania Zelasko which is printed in an English edition but very hard to get  -The German version is available on German ebay. Your piece is in the book.

cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Tezlar76 on November 14, 2011, 01:01:50 AM
Mike- You are wonderful! I can't thank you enough, Now I must find that book :)
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Galle on November 14, 2011, 03:08:12 AM
Gotta disagree with you and Stefania on this one, Mike (with all due respect to you both) - the shape is indeed in the Musterschnitte - Form Nr. 6666/1 - this would be Rubin Matt Iris - I have also seen it in Olympia and other Loetz decors. I am anxious to see Stefania's book (if I can find it in English)- I am really wondering where some of her research led if she is pulling pieces out of the Loetz archives...
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Galle on November 14, 2011, 03:09:55 AM
I should also say that Bronce Glatt is a possibility, as it is hard to tell from the photos whether the iridescence is brown or dark (ruby) red. The first photo makes it look red. This shape was documented in both decors.
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: obscurities on November 14, 2011, 01:47:41 PM
I agree with Warren. Here is the associated line drawing from the Loetz Musterschnitte. 

Craig
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Mike M on November 15, 2011, 12:15:30 AM
hmmm this seems to be chicken and egg

Josephine book contains Cypern glass original design drawings definitely a Josephine brand for iridised glass

and Stefiana dates then to 1880 (no reason to doubt her just there is not an obvious date on the visible drawn page) with variant colours coming out over the 1880s up until 1890 - many of the drawings look like -later- early Loetz shapes and yes your bowl is there.

Pretty darn convincing... -sadly my scanner isn't working

Having said that - as I said in my first answer - yours could be either

M
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Galle on November 15, 2011, 12:32:44 AM
Mike,

Could you take a photo of the page in question?

Warren
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Mike M on November 15, 2011, 12:39:31 AM
I don't think its correct/apporpriate to publish it here

but Warren and Craig you should have copies by now in your mail!

cheers

M
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: obscurities on November 15, 2011, 01:47:23 AM
I got it, and it sure looks the same as the Loetz shape.....  One portion of it on the right side is difficult to read seems to indicate a "greenish"  ground, which could be a clue to differentiate the two lines. 
Craig
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: flying free on November 15, 2011, 07:20:26 AM
quite possibly a stupid question here but I'm trying to learn  :), does the Loetz drawing indicate prunts on the piece, or were these on the drawings anyway, but considered optional please?
many thanks
m
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Galle on November 15, 2011, 01:13:45 PM
The prunts are optional
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: flying free on November 15, 2011, 01:16:29 PM
Thanks Warren  :)
m
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Tezlar76 on November 15, 2011, 06:11:00 PM
Hi all,
  Warren, when you say it seems to indicate a "greenish"  ground, is that leaning this more in the Loetz direction in your opinion? Also, is the photo from Mike showing the same handles?
 Thank you so much everyone,
Ashley
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Galle on November 15, 2011, 06:22:54 PM
That was Craig that mentioned the ground. I'm sticking to Loetz on this piece (more on that in a second) - but I have a question - is the iridescence brown or red? Also, the color of the glass underneath (the ground) does make a difference - is it green, some other color, or colorless?

OK - so I still think this piece is Loetz based on comparison to others I've seen, and the fact that this piece has two handles, as is specifically mentioned in the Loetz archives... whereas the JH piece in Mike's book (I ordered a copy today - it isn't cheap) doesn't specify, and may in fact have three handles as the piece in this completed auction does, which I have always thought was Josephinenhutte and may (I'm guessing) be a somewhat smaller than the Loetz version. Again, the JH drawing compared to the others on the page makes it appear to be a smallish piece, but it's hard to tell from a rough line drawing. The Loetz drawings are more exact. I didn't ask before, but what it the size of your piece?

http://www.auktion-bergmann.de/ufItemInfo.aspx?a_id=72&i_id=155206&s_id=6104

I definitely agree with both Mike and Craig that this is excellent food for thought. :)
Title: Re: Could this be Loetz? Any Help would be much appreciated
Post by: Tezlar76 on November 15, 2011, 06:42:21 PM
It seems very large at 8 1/2" and the color sure looks like a slightly yellowish  green, hope that makes sense. I'll try and get more photos in different lighting-
Ash