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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: jomo99 on November 21, 2011, 07:44:43 PM

Title: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on November 21, 2011, 07:44:43 PM

  Hi All!!

              I was at the Auctions last week and this Tray/Dish was part of one of the lots I won. Described in the catalogue as being French, its is a lovely Turqouise Blue with Heavy Gold Decoration, it is 8 1/4"  or 21cm across and 1" or 2.5cm in depth, Could any of you wonderful people help ID manufacturer and /or approximate age please??

                                     TIA

                           Warmest Wishes,

                               John
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on November 24, 2011, 02:29:31 PM

 Any Ideas anyone?  ;D
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Anne on November 24, 2011, 06:32:21 PM
Never seen a plate like it before John, but the colour and gilding remind me of some Czech perfume bottles I saw somewhere a while ago. May be a red herring but....
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on November 24, 2011, 06:52:21 PM

 Hmmm, Czech? hadn't considered that, Thanks Anne! :kissy:  As I said in my original post the Auctioneer had it catalogued as French but couldn't say more than that!


                                   Warmest Wishes,


                                          John
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: flying free on November 25, 2011, 12:28:06 AM
John there are some Moser gilded blue pieces on this link
- just perhaps somewhere else to search.  Also Anne put a link on to an online Czech glass collection resource somewhere (I'll have  look in a mo) and I seem to remember there were many antique pieces in that collection, so that may be worth a trawl through?
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/library/lib1ba.htm
m
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Anne on November 25, 2011, 12:51:29 AM
This one, M! :)
http://www.miloslavbecka.cz/skla/index.php - Glass collection of Dr. Miloslava Bečky
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: flying free on November 25, 2011, 01:13:48 AM
Anne I think that was the one but the link is now showing 'error' for me :cry:
m
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: KevinH on November 25, 2011, 01:23:07 AM
And trying simply the basic domain name gave me an "active24" page saying "Server running on domain name www.miloslavbecka.cz was blocked"
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: KevinH on November 25, 2011, 02:38:52 AM
Not sure if this will help, but for info here are photos of two of my items that are very likely from the same maker as several of those shown on the Great Glass site, linked to above. My photos are provided to show some detail which I believe is fairly typical of items like these.

The first photo is a composite image of the two together but one piece is with flash and the other is without. They are both approx 4.5 inch (11.4cm) high. Second image is a closeup of part of the bulbous section of the first piece. Third and fourth photos are closeup sections of the thinner item - but both images are laid on their side.

I have some other items like these with less detailed decoration. But are the details shown here the same as or similar to those of John's dish?

And is the Great Glass attribution of Moser really what they are? I know we have discussed some similar pieces before but a thread I did find had lost the images. Even so, I don't recall an attribution being agreed. Maybe Anne's reference to the Dr. Miloslava Bečky item(s) could help - if we only we could see the page(s).
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 25, 2011, 07:37:17 AM
Kev's look typically Bohemian/Czech to me with the yellow enamel under the gilding to give raised gold lines, which so often wear off. Jomo's looks much finer but the pictures are too small to see detail. Can you resize the originals so that the longest dimension is 700 pixels please. I think I might veer more towards French though.
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: flying free on November 25, 2011, 08:03:40 AM
And is the Great Glass attribution of Moser really what they are? I know we have discussed some similar pieces before but a thread I did find had lost the images. Even so, I don't recall an attribution being agreed

Kev, I know what you mean, I should have made it clear in the way I expressed my post above  :-[  .  However, I do find that on Great Glass if they aren't sure of an attribution then they say possibly or probably or just e.g 'Bohemian'.  Of course we all make mistakes, and the 'library' part of their site is sold items, so I guess info could be out of date if they don't keep the Library part updated where needed, but I think their site is excellent.  There are many pieces on that page, id'd as Moser.  And some id'd as Probably Moser.  I'm not suggesting that taking id's off the net is the right thing to do, but Great Glass is a very good source.

John it would be good to see enlarged pics, with a much closer look at the enamelling - are they holly leaves? :sun:
m
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Ivo on November 25, 2011, 08:34:34 AM
Never seen this type of raised enamel decoration and gilding in French glass - only in Italy and in Bohemia.
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 25, 2011, 10:01:11 AM
Jomo's certainly looks better than usual. Are plates a Bohemian thing? Maybe I've just never noticed any.
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on November 25, 2011, 01:33:58 PM

 Many Thanks to everyone for your replies!

   I will try to get some more pictures uploaded a bit later this evening, however I'm struggling with resizing them and they all end up quite small to conform to the maximum size allowed on the board!!!
 Anne, If I send you the original Pics would you be an  :angel: and resize them for me please? 
The Gilding on this Tray/Dish is very fine quality I must say and I do agree with Ivo that in that I thought Italian rather than French for this type of work.


                 Again, Many thanks to you all.



                    Warmest Wishes,


                        John
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Anne on November 25, 2011, 03:41:16 PM
Yes of course, John. Send away! :)
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Anne on November 25, 2011, 07:35:57 PM
John's resized images attached... 12 in total or this and the next 2 posts.
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Anne on November 25, 2011, 07:40:57 PM
batch 2...
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Anne on November 25, 2011, 07:42:19 PM
batch 3...
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 25, 2011, 07:44:27 PM
Close up, I'm much more inclined to go with Bohemian. Does it have a bright green glow under a UV light?
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on November 25, 2011, 07:59:58 PM

 Anne, Thank you Soooooooo Much!!! :kissy:


 Christine, I'm afraid I do not possess a UV light so am unable to say, Sorry :-[

   On these Pics you can see that some of the details are picked out in Silver.


                      Warmest Wishes,

                           John
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: KevinH on November 27, 2011, 01:55:50 AM
Please take a look at my photos side by side with John's (use two browser windows).

I believe the decoration of John's dish, although having many more elements, and perhaps some points of detail, is essentially the same as on my miniature vases. Some areas of the decoration on my pieces show a "silvery grey" appearance but I would not like to say what that means.

(I have now sent an email to Ann and Philip of Great-Glass requesting some assistance on the attrbution.)
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on November 27, 2011, 03:51:17 PM

 Kev If you get a positive ID please let me know!! I showed my Dish to a Dealer friend today who said in his opinion it was  very fine quality of Bohemian manufacture at about 1900, does anyone else have a view on that either way?

                                               TIA

                                    Warmest Wishes,

                                        John
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Lustrousstone on November 27, 2011, 05:04:27 PM
I would be inclined to agree
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: KevinH on November 27, 2011, 07:13:16 PM
Ann & Philip have advised me that their Moser attribution for their Photo Gallery items like these was based on 'Moser Artistic Glass (Edition Two)' by Gary D Baldwin (published 1997 by The Glass Press Inc, ISBN 1-57080-037-5; plates 7 and 85 (and possibly others) showing specific examples.

They also say that in light of the habit of various companies making copies, "it would be a brave man" claiming every example was by Moser.
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on November 28, 2011, 11:30:44 PM

 Many Thanks for the info Kev!!   It would have been great if it HAD been Moser, A name helps sell!! I can understand about the 'copies'  other companies often jump on the bandwagon to cash in on a good thing, but this makes attributions more difficult further down the line!!  I'd love to get a positive ID and year if I can, like I say, it helps the sale!!

                 Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far.

                            Warmest Wishes,

                                  John
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on December 05, 2011, 08:18:12 PM

 Hi All
         Bumping up to see if anyone else has any Ideas or suggestions as to maker? or possible date?  Any help you can offer would be most grateful for.


                                              Warmest Wishes,

                                                   John
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: flying free on December 05, 2011, 09:41:13 PM
John, if I was you I would write to Moser to ask and also try ordering the book through the library if they can get hold of one.  I think there are enough similarities for it to be worth a try.  It's gorgeous.
m
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: Lustrousstone on December 05, 2011, 09:54:58 PM
I've just remembered I have that book. I would say John's piece doesn't quite make the Moser standard IMHO. There is certainly nothing in there the same.
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: flying free on December 05, 2011, 11:42:33 PM
oops, maybe don't write to them or order that book then   :)
m
Title: Re: Turqouise and Gold Tray/Dish, French?
Post by: jomo99 on December 06, 2011, 10:02:02 AM
 Hi M,

           I Had already e-mailed them at your suggestion before Christines reply was posted! Still, can't do any harm for them to confirm it ISN'T Moser can it? LOL!

                                       Warmest Wishes,

                                          John

       p.s Didn't order the book though!