Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on February 10, 2012, 07:50:45 PM
-
that would be similar?
Many thanks
m
-
Stevens and Williams, perhaps?
-
thanks Glen, I'll have a search :)
m
-
Walsh sunbeam
-
Christine, thanks :) a search on that brought up your absolutely fabulous bowl :mrgreen: however, it's not quite the same finish or colour as Webb Iris is it? It's difficult to tell from photos but it looks lighter and more subtle somehow. Do you think it is?
m
-
Don't know. Haven't seen any Webb Iris to my knowledge
-
mm, no me neither, nor have I seen any Sunbeam ::)
I need a bigger reference collection ;D
m
-
Further questions, did Thomas Webb ever leave a snapped off pontil mark rather than a polished pontil mark? On another thread I think it was established that they did not always mark their glass. I can find no reference that Stevens and Williams did the same finish as I'm looking for and nor Walsh Walsh - although I think the 'feel' and finish thickness/fine'ness' of Walsh Walsh mother of pearl ( I have some of these) is the same or very similar to what I am looking at. Does anyone have Cyril Manley's Decorative Victorian Glass and would be willing to look something up for me please?
Many thanks
m
-
Me
-
thanks Christine :) I have emailed you.
m
-
I've around 30 pieces of Webbs,some marked some not but they all have polished pontil marks,I have yet to see one that's not ;D ;D
-
yes it's a curiousity. Are all your pieces you refer to, Thomas Webb rather than Webb Corbett? any dating before 1910?
thanks
-
Many firms left the pontil unpolished if the item had a foot like a trumpet bell , there was no need to polish as it wouldnt touch down and it saved costs . It was not so quick and easy to polish inside the foot i believe . I have several Whitefriars items with trumpet bell foot and cut of pontil un-polished .
-
John, yes I agree. The piece in question does not have a domed foot, but the centre is raised and the pontil mark is so neatly snapped off you would barely notice and very smooth, feels as though it maybe slightly firepolished or something. Looks a bit like a Graystan pontil mark. if you know what I mean.
m
-
All T.Webb and all 20th century apart from a couple of 'Burmese' pieces the only Webb Corbett I have are paperweights ;D ;D
-
Thanks Keith.
Thomas Webb item here without polished pontil mark
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1817.msg12260.html#msg12260
m
-
Oops :pb: must have been an off day at the factory :-[
-
Bernard did say it was very neat though Keith and photographs of pontil marks are notoriously difficult to show what it really looks like on the piece. It is nothing like the vase I'm looking at to be honest.
One more question then, does anyone know if Richardson's ever produced anything like Webb's Iris gold/amber finish and did they make glass with a snapped of pontil mark?
m
-
Wouldn't a picture be easier M? "It" might not even be English!
-
no photos as it hasn't arrived yet, but the finish is the same as these these links
http://www.decorative-antiques.co.uk/displayItem.asp?IID=8700
http://fineart.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=623&lotNo=30393
and probably the same as this one although I suspect the photograph on this one has bleached out the iridescence and the finish
http://www.museum.bristolblueglass.com/iris-glass-vases-ca-1880s/
the shape is most similar to the bristol museum piece, but the foot is not ribbed it is plain, it has a ring around the foot as this one does, the vase body is similar and ribbed but my example has a ruffled rim.
And the overriding difference to all of them is that it has a snapped off pontil mark and no marking for Webb's Iris. I can find posy vases attributed as Webb's Iris but with no marking and no reference to a pattern book number, but I cannot find examples with a snapped off pontil mark.
I will post pictures as soon as it finally turns up.
m
-
well it's arrived - it's stunning :o
pics as below - shall do some more
5" tall, internal ribs to the stem, hand pulled and shaped rim in a deliberate shape, so this is not 5 pulls that all look the same, it is shaped like an iris I think. It is 4" + wide at the rim and the foot is 3" in diameter.
I have also found a Walsh Walsh epergne (see link below) that appears to have (not good photos) this colour iridescence but only at the rims of the flutes, the body of the flutes are clear - apparently that is referenced as Charles Hajdamach British Glass 1800-1914, and Victorian Decorative Glass British Designs, 1850-1914 by Mervyn Gulliver, but I don't have the books.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5715128
So, I think Thomas Webb or Walsh Walsh so far... any thoughts very much appreciated.
m
-
pics of top close up iridescence and pontil mark
-
Walsh Walsh seems more likely. The foot body join is similar to my Sunbeam piece, which also has a snapped pontil mark
-
Yes I feel sure it is Walsh Walsh. An interesting discovery since I am unable to find any other examples of this colour iridescence on the net (or my meagre books) attributed or id'd as Walsh Walsh apart from the epergne.
I have found a couple of other pieces that I am certain are the same maker though. And if the info on them is correct then this piece should date to late in the period 1900-1910 - so therefore earlier than the Sunbeam? I wasn't sure on the date of the Sunbeam as the pic (pag 125 CH 20th Century British Glass) caption says 'Sunbeam....from the 'Colour in Glass' brochure issued by the company in 1929', which doesn't clarify whether the range was new in 1929 or that it was just included in that brochure of that date and could have been issued/produced earlier.
Edited later to add:
A correction to my post above - I can feel the ribs on the outside as well as the inside when it gets near the top of the vase, but as it narrows to the bottom the exterior feels smooth. I'm struggling to count the ribs accurately just in case that is any help.
m
-
I've been doing as much reading and looking as I can and I have to say I am astounded at the complete lack of images and information available on the net on John Walsh Walsh. On a previous thread I'm sure I read that Walsh Walsh had registered more designs than any other maker (I think I remembered that correctly) yet there are comparatively few definite id's and pictures on available :-\ . One auction site even id'd something as 'definitely Walsh Walsh' but couldn't give a source - So how is that possible? I am about to order Eric Reynolds book which hopefully will show some pictures of vases. Can anyone confirm it will, or is it just drinking glasses and patterns please before I order it? and are there any other books which show multiple images of Walsh Walsh pieces that I should be thinking of ordering (or indeed any sources on the net)? Grateful for any ideas.
many thanks
m
-
Reynolds book is worth getting,146 pages,the first 56 show various types,some colour some black and white with a history of the firm,the rest is given over to pattern book records which take a while,with a strong pair of glasses,to get through,an essential I'd say ;D ;D
-
Thanks Keith - I've already ordered the book so hopefully it will be here tomorrow and shed some more light.
m
-
vague similarities with this Walsh vase, although this is pearlised over citron coloured glass
but the 'knop' or applied ring of glass? is very similar to my vase.
http://www.millersantiquesguide.com/items/127569/an-early-20th-century-john-walsh-/
and a pair of table salts with orange iridescence from Stevens and Williams - although again I'm not sure this orange iridescence is really the same as that on my vase. Same technique different colourway.
http://www.millersantiquesguide.com/items/127373/a-pair-of-late-19th-century-stevens-/
-
Iridescence varies with the amount of metal salts sprayed on and the temperature of the glass. If they are all, Walsh you can be pretty sure the same metal salts were used.
-
oh ok thanks :) I wonder then if the iridescent fan shaped vase on the link above was done with the iridescence sprayed on a yellow glass base? It's a lovely effect. My vase is a clear base with the iridescence sprayed over it.
m
-
Almost certainly and possibly uranium glass
-
the book's arrived....I will be back in a few weeks ;D
m