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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Animals & Figurines => Topic started by: rosieposie on February 18, 2012, 10:24:58 PM

Title: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 18, 2012, 10:24:58 PM
I collect Wedgwood Ellies and have several,  so I was surprised to see this one listed as Wedgwood:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wedgwood-Glass-Elephant-Clear-Glass-/250994227900

To me it a looked like Ngwenya glass from Swaziland.
I have written to the seller as she said it has the Wedgwood mark on the base, and has sent me a picture of a Wedgwood acid etched mark she says is on the base,  but I am really not convinced.

Is there anyone who can verify that Wedgwood did make this ellie, and the Wedgwood Rhino she is also selling?
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Tigerchips on February 19, 2012, 02:07:51 AM
The glass looks as though it has a green tint to it. I don't think Wedgwood would have used recycled glass, but i'm no expert.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 19, 2012, 11:11:12 AM
Thanks Tigerchips, I agree it looks very like recycled glass. Do you know if anyone would have fabricated a Wedgwood acid etched mark to put on other pieces?

I did wonder at first if perhaps Wedgwood had made this as a help to get Ngwenya glass started,  but I looked up the history of the start of Ngwenya and it would seem it was the Swedish company, Kosta Boda that did all the pioneering help for then to get started.

The acid etched mark looks pretty authentic except it is straight lettering rather than the usual oval shape.....still feeling uneasy about this, yet the seller is insistent.
Any other comments would be really gratefully received as I collect Wedgwood Ellies and if this is really a rare one,  I don't want to miss out.

Mods,  am I allowed to put up the picture of the acid etched mark the seller sent me?
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Paul S. on February 19, 2012, 05:19:28 PM
Susan Tobin's book does not show any elephants with upturned trunks -or in clear come to that.     Don't know how conclusive that is for you  -  although Wedgwood certainly did animals in clear glass, and the fact this one has a backstamp would, ordinarily, be conclusive - so maybe a bona fide example that is simply rare, who knows!!    A butchers at the mark should clarify the situation. :)
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Paul S. on February 19, 2012, 05:27:47 PM
err...clarification........some Wedgwood elephants do have raised upturned trunks but they point forward..........there aren't any with trunks like this one i.e. curving back in on itself.      Those in the book are really very different. :)
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 19, 2012, 05:39:16 PM
Thanks Paul,  it is worth you googling Ngwenya Glass elephant to see what I mean.  I have dozens of Wedgwood ellies and they are all of similar structure  either with trunk up or trunk down,  but not like this, The pic of the signature looks almost conclusive, but........I can't put the signature up without the Mod's permission.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Wayne on February 19, 2012, 07:57:25 PM
There's deffo something strange about this.  Her Wedgwood rhino here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wedgwood-Glass-Rhinoceros-Clear-Glass-/250994228606) looks just like the Ngwenya rhino here (http://www.zsl.org/shop/ngwenya-glass/glass-rhino/product.html).
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Tigerchips on February 19, 2012, 11:51:24 PM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250994236921#ht_500wt_1202

 :spls:
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: flying free on February 19, 2012, 11:54:33 PM
 a job lot of Wedgwood labels  ;D mmm,but I suppose that doesn't explain the Wedgwood mark on the base of the elephant.  Fishy?  oops no, no fish  ;D
m
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Tigerchips on February 19, 2012, 11:57:43 PM
There's a bull.  :-X
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: flying free on February 20, 2012, 12:00:28 AM
' There's a bull  :-X '
 :24:
m

Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Tigerchips on February 20, 2012, 12:04:05 AM
It's possible she is getting mixed up with photos and the text in the listings i guess. Does the photo of the mark clearly show that it's on the elephant?
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 20, 2012, 12:04:56 AM
There is a lot of 'bull' tigerchips......and everything is listed as Wedgwood!! She hasn't shown the label,  only the wedgwood mark.......am I allowed to show it????????
I told her the rhino was definately Ngwenya......she says the auction house experts have agreed they are all wedgwood.  :usd:
If she had fish, m, I am sure it would say 'no chips'!
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Anne on February 20, 2012, 01:29:18 PM
If the seller says you can, then yes, Rosie. Make sure you add a note when you add such a photo though, saying "Photo courtesy and copyright of (seller's name)" and all will be well.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 21, 2012, 10:27:43 PM
The elephant in the first image is not Wedgwood Glass. It is most likely to be Ngwenya, as is the Rhino. Wedgwood did not make rhinos, to the best of my recollection.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 21, 2012, 10:54:00 PM
Thank you for popping in aa, I hoped you might,  because if you say it isn't Wedgwood then I am totally satisfied.  I have said all along that it was Ngwenya glass, as I know it well......but the seller is adamant.  I have a picture of the acid etching saying Wedgwood England,  but it just doesn't look right and I doubt that the seller would llow me to show it Anne,  but if anyone wants to see it in a private message,  I think I am allowed to show it to them that way.
It ends soon and has no bids so far....thankully.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: Tigerchips on February 21, 2012, 11:12:37 PM
Here is a link to the bull... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250994232433#ht_500wt_1202

I have no idea, it lacks the green tint. I wouldn't know a Wedgwood animal if i saw one anyway, apart from the duck that i have.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 12:01:52 AM
That is Ngwenya as well TC, it is a buffalo, just a differnt light source when the picture was taken......here is one:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/49190269/HANDMADE_NGWENYA_GLASS_ORNAMENT_BUFFALO.html

Only a few hours to go until they end......if I could afford to waste the money,  I would buy them, but I would rather spend it on properly listed stuff,  besides the Glass Fair is on Sinday and I might need some pennies for that if I decide to go.

Let's see if anyone buys them and what feedback they leave???
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 22, 2012, 08:09:05 AM
It is worth bearing in mind that Ngwenya animals are exceptionally well made. My own view is that while they do not have the advantage of the Wedgwood name, to make them more collectable, in terms of craftsmanship they are at least on a par with the Wedgwood animals. In my own personal view they are actually much "better".
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 22, 2012, 08:11:38 AM
http://www.ngwenyaglass.co.sz/african-animals.html
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: glassobsessed on February 22, 2012, 09:13:11 AM
They are definitely crafted with an intimate knowledge of the animal concerned, Wedgwood's animals are more abstract in form.

Here is another from Ngwenya:

John 
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 09:17:04 AM
Can't disagree with you there aa, but if it has a false signature, does that make it more valuable or less?
There is a lot of 'character' captured in these animals, and one day, I may well start an Ngwenya collection, having been brought up in Africa. 
However, at the moment I am trying to complete my Wedgwood 'ellie' collection, and there is still a way to go.

There is a bid on the elephant now BTW

"Only a few hours to go until they end......if I could afford to waste the money,  I would buy them, but I would rather spend it on properly listed stuff,  besides the Glass Fair is on Sinday  and I might need some pennies for that if I decide to go."
I did of course mean Sunday,  although it all depends on how much I spend there!!

Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 22, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
besides the Glass Fair is on Sinday  and I might need some pennies for that if I decide to go."
I did of course mean Sunday,  although it all depends on how much I spend there!!

Good point, you may well find that there are some animals at the Cambridge Glass Fair!
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 09:53:51 AM
I really hope so aa 'cos I am still looking for an Amber Lilliput ellie and a trunk up white one!  :X:
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: johnphilip on February 22, 2012, 10:04:44 AM
You just cant help it can you Rosie ? ;D ::) Should be a good turn out now boys  EHHH .
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: wolkenreb on February 22, 2012, 10:52:04 AM
Is that you bidding Rosie?
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 22, 2012, 11:11:27 AM
For the avoidance of any possible doubt, I have just shown this to Eddie King who was at Wedgwood Glass making elephants among a wide range of other things and he confirms that this was not a Wedgwood design.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 01:06:51 PM
Not me bidding Nancy......but I noticed just before I started work that the title had been changed to 'Wedgwood Style',  so perhaps someone else has said something to her???

Good to have your assurance and clarification aa, thanks for that.

It has sold with 3 bids.....at £16 I don't think that is a bad price to pay for one of these ellies....if I were collecting them I would be 'well pleased' as they say.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: wolkenreb on February 22, 2012, 01:45:21 PM
Rosie, I picked up a Wedgwood white trunk-up elephant at a charity shop last year - around £6 I think.  Sold it on Ebay for about £20 if I remember.  But I was surprised at the amount of interest.  Are the white ones hard to come by?
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 01:59:20 PM
Hi Nancy,  you don't seem to see many of them about.  There is one on eBay at the moment at over £40 with label etc.....and I do have one that has blue mottling in the white but I think it might be an Isle of Man one as the colouring is the same as an IOM squirrel that is so Wedgwood looking apart from the positioning of the tail which is swept to one side.

I'm surprised I didn't grab yours when it was on eBay,  I would have happily paid that for one....I have the trunk down one, and most of the other colours in pairs.

Some are in pristine condition, and for those that aren't, I wait for a better one to come along,  get that, then sell the other one on.....should hopefully end up with a nice collection.

Then in amongst them are the two tone ones and of course the Turnmill blue one that aa kindly identified for me.... one of my first queries here on GMB!    

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,22239.msg125468.html#msg125468

   So it would seem I have gone full circle!  :sun:
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: wolkenreb on February 22, 2012, 02:21:30 PM
Quite a collection then Rosie.  I'll keep my eyes open for same and Amber Lilliput.  Good luck!  (You don't happen to have the Pirelli linked ellies do you?)  ;)
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 02:29:09 PM
Hi Nancy....well I have to confess that I don't have any Pirelli glass that I am aware of (I assume you mean lampwork type?) I only have one little green lampwork ellie,  I bought him to go with the two green mottled Wedgwood ellies to make it a family...... :usd:

I think I might make the effort and start photographing all the ellies....I would need a big windowsill though!

Can you put a picture up of a Pirelli ellie so I can see the type you mean,  then I can look out for one if you would like me to.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: wolkenreb on February 22, 2012, 07:08:08 PM
Would love to see a photo of your ellies, and indeed of all of your animals Rosie.  I've heard so much about them.  And how nice that you make sure they have families.  You must love them indeed!  I've been looking out for the Pirelli linked ellies - they're just so cute.  There are sets of 3 and 4 (I get all my info from Frank's Glass Zoo).  I have seen other, more recent versions, but the Pirelli ones have real character I think, especially the wee one at the end who's on his butt refusing to move!  I can't send you a pic as the only ref I have is in the Zoo, and not available without membership (or are you a member? - it's all about glass animals - not just Pirelli).

I guess if you see a set with ellies linking their trunks and tails, and the last one is refusing to move, it might be Pirelli.

I'll look out for yours if you'll look out for mine!  :thup: :X:
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 07:15:07 PM
Hi Nancy....I thought I was a member of the Zoo,  but I can't remember my password!!  It's an age thing!

I will look out for a little troup of ellies with a stubborn baby at the rear!  and if I see one at Cambridge, would you like me to ring you......if so,  leave your phone number on my email (envelope on left).  Or are you going anyway?  I will only have eyes for animals there so if there is one,  I'm sure I will notice.
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: wolkenreb on February 22, 2012, 07:17:18 PM
Have just emailed you Rosie!
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 22, 2012, 07:53:15 PM
Wilco!    whatever that means!
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 24, 2012, 08:45:11 PM
You might find one of these at Cambridge...
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 24, 2012, 08:48:10 PM
Or maybe some of these
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 24, 2012, 08:51:59 PM
OMG!!  They are absolutely fabulous aa....are they from your collection,  or are they for sale,  or did you make them?....they are just my thing.....amazing! 
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 24, 2012, 09:00:12 PM
OMG!!  They are absolutely fabulous aa.
Thank you

OMG!!  or are they for sale,

Definitely. We make very few of them and they are all one off - specially for Cambridge...together with a few other little bits and pieces..not going to spill the beans (or would that be apples and pears?)...you'll just have to get there early!

Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 24, 2012, 09:16:49 PM
Oh please don't sell them all before I get there  :cry:...it is a long drive aa....and I mustn't get stopped for speeding, must I?
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: aa on February 24, 2012, 09:23:02 PM
Long drive? Only about three hours going and 4 hours coming back for me! See you Sunday.  ;)
Title: Re: Wedgwood Elephant expert needed for ID please.
Post by: rosieposie on February 24, 2012, 09:38:17 PM
OK,  but Hampshire is further South than Surrey!!  If there are none left, I will sulk!! :cry:

Why longer returning than going????, the car should be lighter if you sell out....the journey home should be faster??