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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: BRADBURY7308 on February 29, 2012, 11:43:12 PM

Title: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: BRADBURY7308 on February 29, 2012, 11:43:12 PM
Fairly lost about where to start with this i walked into a local antique centre and saw it from a distance and thought it might be a nice piece of deco pressed glass, Upon picking it up and by the finely polished base and weight 3kg i realised it was cut glass. 11" long 5.5" wide. I can only say it feels bohemium to me the unusual decal design in the front im sure ive seen it somewhere before. Its heavily cut and etched in places mainy to the ends the base is heavliy worn so must have good age. Ive never seen this kind of glass in blue before so its new to me any ideas on where i might start to look???
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: Paul S. on March 01, 2012, 08:03:36 PM
probably a stupid thing to say, but apparently W/Fs did some cut decoration on sapphire blue material in the thirties somewhere.  :-\
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: BRADBURY7308 on March 01, 2012, 08:13:48 PM
Ah thankyou i do remember seeing a blue one by W/F but my memory didnt serve me well...Im gonna look into this more thankyou for the reply...
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: Paul S. on March 01, 2012, 08:21:40 PM
actually, I was waiting for Emmi to come in a shoot me down instantly, although expect she will yet..............
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: BRADBURY7308 on March 03, 2012, 12:18:11 AM
Not having much look getting a look at the WF catalogues yesterday or today i will let you know when ive thouroughy checked them out
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: scavo on March 03, 2012, 11:30:55 AM
This is completely out of the blue but the base of your bowl was very reminiscent of something I'd seen somewhere before - but I couldn't remember where or when. Then, I was browsing though my ebay 'watch list' when I spotted this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190597618851?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 03, 2012, 07:12:38 PM
I can't see any resemblance at all.... :spls:
Was that the wrong link, scavo?
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: Paul S. on March 03, 2012, 08:01:14 PM
Sue - I think Scavo is drawing attention to the 'scalloped outline of the base on the Baccarat piece being similar to the outline of the base on the blue bowl  -  but perhaps a bit too tenuous?
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: BRADBURY7308 on March 03, 2012, 10:13:35 PM
I can see similar characteristics on the base foot, Wouldnt know whether its the sort of baccarat quaity as never owned a piece? :X:
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: beaubow on March 04, 2012, 12:11:29 AM
This is completely out of the blue but the base of your bowl was very reminiscent of something I'd seen somewhere before - but I couldn't remember where or when. Then, I was browsing though my ebay 'watch list' when I spotted this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190597618851?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648


Sottsass did the bulk of his design work in the 1970s-90s, which would be decades after the bowl in question was made.  That "cog wheel" form was moderately common in glass in the 1930s. 

I'm not saying whether the bowl in question is Baccarat or not -I think it could be French or it could be Bohemian- but I don't think that vase on eBay is significant one way or another.
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: scavo on March 04, 2012, 01:49:07 PM
Sue - I think Scavo is drawing attention to the 'scalloped outline of the base on the Baccarat piece being similar to the outline of the base on the blue bowl  -  but perhaps a bit too tenuous?

Sue and Robert: quite right! I wouldn't be putting Baccarat money down on something on the strength of a similarity. I merely spotted a similar design trope and suggested a rather optimistic avenue to be explored in answer to 'any ideas on where i might start to look???'
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 04, 2012, 02:02:21 PM
 :pb:
Me being ignorant of the meaning of the word "similarity" when it comes to cutting!
I just saw a tall ribbed green bud vase..... with no extra pictorial cutting, no swags.... I didn't bother to study the base after that!
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: beaubow on March 04, 2012, 04:47:45 PM
Sue and Robert: quite right! I wouldn't be putting Baccarat money down on something on the strength of a similarity. I merely spotted a similar design trope and suggested a rather optimistic avenue to be explored in answer to 'any ideas on where i might start to look???'

I think that's reasonable.  i just happen to be in the middle of some semi-causal research into late 20th century modernism and Sottsass is one of my interests as he was one of the leading designers of Postmodern domestic items, especially through his involvement with Alessi.  Much of his later work was historicist in nature, drawing elements from earlier styles and periods, so the similarity between the bowl and the Baccarat vase are due to Sottsass's copying or elements of earlier designs, rather than them having some contemporary relationship.

(I hope that makes sense; I haven't had coffee yet!)

All I personally can say about the bowl for certain is that it's not American, and that it's either a great piece by a good company or a good piece by a great company.
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: BRADBURY7308 on March 04, 2012, 05:01:14 PM
 ::)
I just keep thinking ive seen something before similar that was a piece made for one of the big glass exibitions that have taken place in the past, Im clutching at straws big time but my mind is stuck with it. Thanks for everybodys input im thinking it might be good quality maker too but who knows :thup:
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: scavo on March 04, 2012, 08:45:34 PM
Late twentieth century modernism is certainly an area that naturally develops an historicist tendency. A natural conclusion to the death of ideas that postmodernism represents.
Thank you for pointing out my transverse-historical comparison. Though I did think the Baccarat piece must be a revisiting of an old design. I admit to knowing next to nothing about Baccarat or their designs in relation to contemporary or contemporaneous trends. My (limited) understanding of the top glass manufacturers is that they produce both conservative and cutting edge pieces.
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: beaubow on March 04, 2012, 09:07:58 PM
Though I did think the Baccarat piece must be a revisiting of an old design. I admit to knowing next to nothing about Baccarat or their designs in relation to contemporary or contemporaneous trends. My (limited) understanding of the top glass manufacturers is that they produce both conservative and cutting edge pieces.

The idea that it's revisiting of an older piece wouldn't surprise me.  Ettore trained as an architect, not an industrial designer, and his best works tend to be in wood or metal.  I actually didn't know he did work for Baccarat, but it doesn't surprise me.  It also wouldn't surprise me that he played it safe by building on or altering an existing design.

From what I have seen, that vase, in crystal, would not be out of line with some of the pieces they made in the 1930s.  They produced some aggressively geometric items designed by leading French Art Deco designer at the top end of their line.  They're the sort of pieces you only see in books or museums.
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: Paul S. on March 04, 2012, 09:09:13 PM
sorry, you lost me there ;)  -  but just in case anyone else thinks of Belgium I have looked throught the VSL catalogue on Pamela's masterbuchs - as I thought there seemed some possible similarity with VSL's cut pieces from the 1940 -50 period.        However, didn't see it there.
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: Greg. on March 04, 2012, 09:22:06 PM
Paul, was this the bowl that reminded you of Whitefriars originally? The links seem to no longer work, however, seem ok, when pasted into your browser. Appreciate there are differences, however, thought It may prove of some use. Although, no definitive conclusion, I think there was a lean towards Czech.

 http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,37331.0.html

Also images in the link below:

http://www.whitefriars.com/whitefriars_glass/356.html
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: scavo on March 04, 2012, 10:15:26 PM
Penny has dropped. Memphis. I failed to see the mention of Scottsass or the item description. Now I clearly see a link is even more unlikely between the two pieces.  I do now however, understand the astronomical price.

I must say I prefer this rather understated piece to the vulgar (IMO) Memphis stuff of the '80s to which I was obliquely referencing without knowing the concrete link. But if I had the money to buy a Scottsass piece, it would probably be in the latter, more obvious category!
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: BRADBURY7308 on March 04, 2012, 10:18:05 PM
ast couple of photographs its very hard to photograph for me it has some etching to the ends quite well made, One day something will turn up and it will have a label or a mark!!!
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: beaubow on March 04, 2012, 10:21:15 PM
Yes, I should have mentioned Memphis.  It's probably what he's best known for.  His early designs for Alessi and other, from the 1970s, were quite simple and somewhat Brutalist, and I like them quite a bit.  

The high-period Memphis stuff always reminds me of Pee Wee Herman's TV show, Pee Wee's Playhouse.  I'll leave my comments at that  :rn:
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: Paul S. on March 04, 2012, 10:27:56 PM
thanks Greg, but I don't think it was, and I've forgotten in which of the upteen books I saw the picture that made me think of W/Fs -  just that I do remember it was a sapphire colour and was a cut piece from W/Fs.     I'll try looking again tomorrow.

Bradbury, do you mean wheel engraved rather than etched?.........I had understood that it was only acid that achieved an etched effect.

I really did expect that one of the W/Fs people would have long since come in and discounted this as being from 'the white friar' :)

I'm probably now leaning towards Bohemian or Czech.
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: BRADBURY7308 on March 05, 2012, 12:43:20 AM
Sorry yep wheel engraved,  :-[
Title: Re: Majestic electric blue cut glass Jardinaire Gotta see this!!Sklo Bohemium??
Post by: chopin-liszt on March 05, 2012, 10:05:58 AM
Taking in to account my complete ignorance of this sort of thing, (in terms of time period, clear glass and cut stuff) my first reaction to the piece was to think of some of the unusual and non-catalogued or non-standard pictorial designs found on Webb - particularly in the Gay glass range of pieces......

But the scalloped bottom seem out of place with these.