Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on March 01, 2012, 08:02:34 PM
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I thought this was rather interesting for more than one reason.
I think it a spoon warmer, but glass is not the best material for having spoon warmers made of to be honest, so perhaps a preserve stand of some sort maybe? However it's other function could be a gigantic salt ;D or for giants toothpicks. But the only one that makes sense really is spoon warmer and I have seen silver ones in a similar barrel shape modelled as canons. The frame is correct for it and the perfect fit - it is EPNS and just has EPNS stamped on the fluted base.
It has the registered design no engraved on it 'reg 410770 - this number is not in the Great Glass list of reg numbers unfortunately but dates to 1903. I think glass with an engraved registered number is quite scarce from what I read.
The glass is internally ribbed and has a cut, polished and bevelled rim at the top. At the base it has a little knop, ground to fit securely into the silver bobble at the bottom of the plated stand.
Measures 6" wide, 5 1/8" high and 3 1/4" deep as a piece with glass in place.
I hope to get a maker, and confirmation that it is designed as a spoon warmer, from the reg number so that will be my next effort, but just thought I'd share as it is a bit of a curiosity.
m
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it won't be in any of the pressed glass lists, presumably, because it isn't pressed glass :)
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As far as I know the Great Glass reg numbers aren't only pressed glass though are they?
And no it's not pressed glass. It's handblown with a cut and polished rim.
m
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Must admit I don't use that particular list, although it would be the same, in general, as all the other lists (some copying probably) - although can say that it's not showing in Thompson (inlcuding her supplement). Too late to be in Slack or Lattimore. You're correct about including other than pressed, and some cut is also included in the lists - although the pressed authors would not have discussed those. How about a tooth pick holder? spill holder?
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Spill holder is a possibility Paul, I hadn't thought of that - but it's much too big for toothpick holder.
So spill holder or spoon warmer, spill holder feels better than spoon warmer, good thinking.
Thanks for looking in Thompson for me, I'm grateful. I do wonder whether the design number might be for the whole piece, not just the glass and therefore it might be registered in the metals section rather than glass?
m
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I will look the next time I go to Kew, unless of course you get the answer in the meantime. But why a spoon warmer - are there in fact such things??
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Thanks Paul, that's very kind.
There are spoon warmers, plenty of examples in silver, many being nautilus shell shaped oddly :)
I'm sure I've read they were also made in glass. The silver ones seem to me to be more enclosed than this though and the more I think about your suggestion of spill vase, the more I think that might be more likely than spoon warmer. I was told emphatically it was a spoon warmer when I bought it despite my suggestion it was a giant salt, but that's not to say he was right. It will be interesting to find out what it was registered as, if that information becomes available.
Take a look at the silver spoon warmers. Some of them are pretty majestic.
m
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Lump sugar methinks and missing the tongs
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Christine I think you win the prize!
Luckily I always carry a spare pair of sugar tongs around ;D
m
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It's a posh coal scuttle...
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oooh of course, yes it is. In which case maybe I need one of those shovel shaped spoons to go with it rather than the tongs.
m
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You obviously weren't brought up with a coal fire. You used coal tongs for topping up.
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oh I was :) but only when I was very young so I've never known the ins and outs of what the utensils were used for. I remember the coal shed and deliveries which were always very exciting. We had a hangy thingy with all the bits on I do remember. Indeed I've just remembered we had a hangy thing here (belonged to OH's parents) until a few years ago when I sold it. Now we have a wood burner so no need for tongs. We just have a poky thing now ;D
m
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I think spoons, and coincidentally ;) I have some old family ones ive been meaning to put on ebay for ages
epns going cheap 8)
Its an interesting design shape, worth checking it out, its saying Christopher Dresser to me :thup:
That would be nice !
Andy
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Andy it would be lovely if it were Dresser, but having investigated that option on something else in quite a lot of detail, I don't think it is.
It's of the period, probably inspired by some of his design ideas, but I think if it were a Dresser design it would have more markings on than just EPNS. I suspect the silversmiths he worked with would have definitely put their marks on there as well.
Thanks though :thup:
m
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Hi M, just saw this thread which has some similarities (not completely sure they have the same purpose...?) -Don't think a final conclusion was reached regarding its use/purpose.....
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=13730.0
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Thanks Greg yes I did :)
Shape is the same, but the size is very different.
I also took on board Christine's observation on rereading it though, and something that had occurred to me looking at silver spoon warmers, there is no lip on mine either. Whilst I don't think the spoon would fall out of mine because of the angle and the size of the piece, I'm not sure really it would make an ideal spoon warmer - the water wouldn't stay hot long enough.
Maybe the registration number will throw up something completely different but I'm going with sugar lump holder for now ;D
m
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Unfortunately, The National Archives results are not as helpful as we might have wished. You can see from the Register entry that this item is showing as Class 1 (metals) and is being called a 'Set' - the metal appears to override the glass when being classified.
I think that the Register entry is legibile, although I know nothing of Allen & Smith, but there may be information on this company of electro platers on line somewhere m. So still don't know who made the glass portion, and nothing in the Registration to indicate what use this was intended for :)
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:-* thank you Paul!
that is so kind of you. Well, I think that there have been previous glass items registered in the metals section - perhaps the design was originally done by the metal company and the glass was made by ....name your choice...i.e. whoever they had a deal with to supply it to fit their metal design.
Or, it was deliberately registered under metals to avoid competitors seeing a newly registered design maybe? I have also read that had happened. However given it was the metal work company who registered it I'm inclined to think it was their design originally and they commissioned the glass to go in. Nice that the glass has the rd no engraved on it though. I think that is quite unusual.
Well, I'm going with sugar and thank you so much, it is fascinating to see the drawings of it as well.
I've found a James Allen and a Robert Catterson-Smith in Birmingham. I'll investigate further.
m
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M, this page has some info and a photo about the Allen of Allen & Smith:
He was a Birmingham Silversmith and also in business, Allen and Smith, (Brierley Street Birmingham) as an electroplater.
http://www.allen-family-tree.co.uk/william-h-allen.html
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Fantastic Anne ! Thank you :-*
Ok, so it was William H Allen - It's nice to know he was a silversmith and also I like that it was 'Brierley' Street as well - another link to the glass world :) (although I appreciate there may be a few 'Brierley's of one sort or another in the area). Another comment in the precis is that he was selling 'luxury goods'. All really interesting information.
m