Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: neil53 on April 07, 2012, 11:15:13 AM
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Hi, I'm a bit stumped on identifying the age of this tumbler. It appears to have been made in a mould in three parts. There are three vertical joins in the glass, one of which can be seen in the picture. It has the feel of mid 19th century glass about it but I'd appreciate any input from the pressed glass experts on this site?
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Hi does it have a lot of even base wear ? Baccaratt did a lot of moulded tumblers in the mid 1800s i have a couple one has a sulphide in it , about 1860 i was told . they also did moulded candlesticks . I dont do pressed usually . jp
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Hi JP,
Thanks for taking the time out to comment. Yes, there is enough age on the base to suggest it might be 19th century but I don't think the metal is sufficiently good for it to be Baccarat. I wish it was! Neil
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Hi Neil the metal on the pressed items is not that wonderful i have seen some really rough candlesticks with poor metal and one of my tumblers is not that good but has been IDd by a top glassie . nothing like the crystal .
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a good picture of the base would be useful Neil. Sorry can't really help I don't think - I've just looked again at John A. Brooks 'Glass Tumblers 1700 - 1900', and there's nothing quite like your example. Head on block time, but it does seem that the vast majority of C19 tumblers lean towards being conical/slightly conical in shape i.e. narrower at the base, although I appreciate they can also be waisted, barrel shaped (earlier examples probably), or cylindrical. Maybe Continental examples were different. I won't go into descriptions here, because I have to reply elsewhere on a similar subject. What convinces you that yours is a tumbler?
Is jp saying that his C19 Baccarat examples are cylindrical or tapered?
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Mine are cylindrical straight sides the sulphide is the same mould pattern as the one in the big Baccarat book page 156 , one that i sold had the same side pattern as Neils but the small band around the top was plain , i am not saying i know they are Baccarat... just thought it was worth looking at .
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Would agree jp, anything is worth looking at when you're stumped. I just thought that the way that this moulded decoration comes up almost to the top of the rim, then just possibly the piece is not a drinking glass - most tumblers have some little distance of smooth glass where the lips/mouth contact the glass. :)
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Hi Paul, thanks for your input and here is a photo of the base. There is about 1/4 inch of clear glass between the strawberry decoration and the rim. If not a tumbler then I am stumped as it appears to be too small for a vase and too decorative for an apothecray piece. Appreciate all the help though! :)
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Hi JP,
Thanks for the information regarding your own glass. I'd be very happy to attribute it to Baccarat but am familiar only with their crystalware. Is your tumbler made in three parts? It is that which I have not seen before.
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Neil
Although it seems to be mentioned often, the number of mould lines for a pressed piece are not helpful in providing a time frame. Does it rings like a bell when lightly tapped? If not, later than the 1850s.
Dimensions?
Sid
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Hi Sid, thanks for your input. I'm new to the forum so sorry if I missed something that is well known to many of you. My own forte is 18th century (Georgian) glass and anything beyond about 1820 is relatively new ground for me.
The tumbler does not ring when flicked although I believe it is made from lead metal due to its weight. It's thick walled which could account for it not ringing.
I agree with it being 1850 or later. What I don't know is if it is Victorian or much later. I'm assuming the former as manufacturing techniques appear to have improved by the turn of the century to not leave the lines. Thanks. Neil
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HI Neil,
Welcome to the forum , here you will find a huge amount of information on just about every kind of glass you could think of , even 17th and 18thc glass ;)
Cheers ,
Peter.
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Quite remarkably, I've now been able to acquire an example of this exact design/pattern, and it would seem this very unlikely to be a tumbler. Mine has a lid (the moulding of which matches that on the body), which confirms my earlier thoughts that this was a two part item. The proximity of the moulding and profiled grooves are, in my opinion, definitely too close to the rim for this to be designed as a drinking glass. There are indeed three mould seams, and a flat ground/polished outer section to the base. In my opinion simply a rather inexpensive lidded storage jar - certainly not a pickle in view of the poorly fitting lid. The glass is quite clear and bright with some small bubbles - although doesn't appear to have any seeds/stones - and has a very dull clunk, so no lead content - and my example shows little wear.
Difficult to date really, might be late Victorian, or early C20 even, but there's no doubt that the pillar moulding is an example of an earlier decorative style (can be seen often on mid C19 tumblers) and is possibly confusing the issue - it certainly has the looks of being older perhaps than it is. Needless to say no marks on mine.
Unless I've missed it somewhere Neil, can't recall seeing if you'd commented on your whereabouts - this can, sometimes, help and/or provide some guide to the origins of a piece - and unsure if yours came from the U.K. or not. My example was from the South of England earlier today.
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Hi Paul, well I am truly impressed. So much for my views on it being a lead glass tumbler. I feel as if I should be given a pointy hat and made to sit in the corner! All the input is much appreciated and I will definitely use the forum again. For what it is worth I am based in Chepstow, Gwent, just across the Welsh border.
Best wishes
Neil
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Thanks for the welcome Peter
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Paul
Good work!
I am still curious about the size though. Now that we have two examples in hand, maybe one of you can provide dimensions.
Sid
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height of body only is about 3.7/8" (100mm)...........including lid height is about 5.3/8" (137mm).
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Yes, same for mine in terms of dimensions.
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Diameter?
Sid
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using calipers.......maximum diameter of lid is 2.15/16" (75mm).............and body tapers very slightly from same measurement at the top, down to 2.3/4" (70mm) at the base.
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Paul
Thanks for the dimensions. Again, nice work digging into this one!
Sid