Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Brigitte on May 03, 2012, 12:38:34 AM
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Hello
Does somebody know something about this
little old drinking glass?
It is ± 9,7 cm. high and carved with a T or
'wide' Y on the bottom.
See picture's
Greetings Brigitte
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Hi Brigitte,
The glass is Victorian, dating from somewhere between 1865 and 1890. The T shaped scratch at the bottom of the glass is made by a gadget which was only used over that period of time.
It is a small wine or port glass from the period.
Best wishes
Neil
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Neil thanks for this information - I have a turquoise sort of pea moulded drinking glass that has this on the base. Would you take a look if you have a minute please. It would be much appreciated.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46793.msg263114.html#msg263114
m
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Hello
Thank you so very very much for this info
that is an old glass.
People on the forum know really a lot of
glass and that is great.
Thank you!
Greetings Brigitte
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interesting little glass Brigitte, in particular the thick pebble glass type base of the bowl. What does Neil think of the suggestion of this being a deception or toastmasters glass of some description. Generally, wines and ports from that period don't have this very thick base to the bowl. On the other hand might this be for liqueur? :)
Is m's glass optically moulded, or can the moulding be felt on the outside of the bowl. I understand that pieces with a small collar between the stem and bowl are usually a little older than those without. This is an unusual design if it's British Victorian - what comes to mind are the similarly moulded C20 surfaces from Czechoslovakia, which are occasionally seen on vases and water jugs - Steven commented recently on a vase from someone, with this general type of surface design. I was suggested that this might have been a derivative of the 'large olives' type of pattern.
In terms of scarcity, and going from common to scarce, bowl colours on these sherry/port type glasses are usually green, followed by red, followed by blue, then amethyst. What if any m, is the extent of wear on the underside of the foot??
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I believe the mark on the base is caused by the shears when cutting off ?
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Other things but not glasses I think JP
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If Peter is around (oldglassman) - perhaps he might give his opinion on both Brigitte's and m's glasses.
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I agree with JP - that looks like a shear mark to me... Perhaps it would help if we had a better description of a gadget and how it could leave such a mark? The only tool I've seen which was described as a gadget held the foot of the glass around its edge by spring pressure - is this the typical design? If so, I don't see how it could leave such a distinct mark in the centre.
I've always suspected that these shear type marks are associated with gadget finished glasses simply because glasses which have been stuck up on a pontil will have had the shear mark either covered by the pontil scar or ground out accordingly, but I could well be wrong! ???
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HI ,
I have to agree with both Steven and JP on the Y and T marks being the result of shearing , the gadget merely being the tool to hold the glass by foot after shearing ,whether the use of these died out around 1890 I really have no idea,I can imagine in some places it may well have been used till a later date , just as we see snapped rough pontils on relatively new glasses at times ,indicating that they are hand made but not necessarily old,
Re Bridgitte's glass ,this to me looks crudely made probably for tavern use , the other i think is much better quality,mould blown in the traditional way ,a 1 piece mould with the bowl then being blown larger after coming out of the mould ,as opposed to the multi part moulds that would create a finished item with seams .
cheers ,
Peter,
Back to the packing for tomorrow!!!!
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sincere thanks to Steven and Peter - I realized afterwards that this old chestnut had come up before, and I'd foregotten completely what the correct answer was.
How errors get proliferated!! Have a look in 'The Arthur Negus Guide to British Glass' by John Brooks.........page 33, bottom picture No. 15, for which the caption reads......... "the typical 'Y' (or 'T') mark was left by the gadget, which was used as an alternative to the pontil iron during the C19" (my contents and italics in brackets).
And I'm sue I've seen the same mis-information elsewhere.
So, it's caused by when shearing the foot away from the pontil iron - and proabably true to say found on pieces of lesser quality.
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found on pieces of lesser quality? why? would that be because those of better quality would have had a polished pontil mark which would have polished out these shear marks?
m
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It's not shearing off the pontil iron; glass is cracked off because it's near enough solid at the pontil iron, which is why you have a broken bit to polish away, or not. It's the shearing of the molten glass to drop a gob the size you want into the mould or just to detach it from a bigger bit.
If your sheared-off gob is then transferred to a pontil iron, the shear mark would disappear. You get a mark because the shears are cooler than the glass, so the area of glass touched cools slightly.
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so it doesn't indicate lesser quality, it's just a function of the process of how the piece was made?
m
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Over the years i have heard both gadget mark or shear mark i wonder if Adam can put it to rest , i will also ask a friend who s job was footmaker at Whitefriars . jp
Also the mythical scorpion mark on the bottom of some Murano clowns it that a shear mark or a gadjet mark ?