Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: vintagerose on May 19, 2012, 02:58:43 AM
-
Westmoreland Carnival glass vase. I got two today. Superb cannot find the pattern. Help please................
Measure: 18.5 cm Tall (7 1/4"T) x 7.5 cm Wide (3"wide), Base is same as 7.5cm
Thank you Looked at doty, books , sites cannot find pattern. Rose
-
I think we need a picture of the whole thing, not just the base ;)
-
Sorry about the missing photos :'(
Here they are now :)
-
Not Westmoreland. Lily of the Valley by Summit Art Glass in Cobalt.
-
Great Thank you so much! It does have the WG mark on the bottom. I know it doesn't show up in the photo well. The mark is on the base.
-
I had a few of these back in the late 1990s. They were made for Rosso (the glass dealer) in a variety of different colours - iridised and plain. I bought several in a vivid emerald green Carnival - I recall the vivid blue ones as well. I have the original Rosso brochures from the 1990s showing them in "Malachite" and "Malachite Carnival" too. This vase was called "Lily of the Valley" (for obvious reasons). I am not sure who made these specific vases for Rosso but it may have been Mosser, Summit or even Fenton (maybe someone else can add this info).
Rosso own(ed) many old Westmoreland moulds which continue to bear the trademark/logo. I don't believe these vases were originally made by Westmoreland in Carnival.
{Ohio posted as I was typing :) }
-
Thank you Ohio I have asked in my other message as well. I am going to get Glen's book on carnival glass, and if you have any ideas I would love your suggestions. Thanks for your time. Hugs, Rose :D
-
Ohio - is there enough evidence to firmly attribute this to Summit?
-
Glen I don't have a copy of the Summit mold book thats out there, however an advanced WG collector I know informed me that it was believed it was leased to Summit by a private collector who has approx 500 WG molds. The private collector was friends with the Fenton family & they (Fenton) stored the WG molds for years & now that Fenton is closed supposedly they may be on the block in the future, but they are not included in the 5/24/12 auction which has 10,679 molds on the block. I was told Plum was using some of these these molds for a few years making stuff for Rosso. I assume that if this was a leased mold Russ was using it was returned after his unfortunate passing. NCC bought most of Russ's Cambridge molds & I think on the QT something was worked out for the few Cambridge molds Fenton had. Anyway thats what I was told. Ken
-
LOL okay so is this westmoreland or summit? Now the debate. I am clueless but would love to learn the outcome. These are really thick glass with some molding left on trim. I don't know how many WG made but the lines are these are crisp. I do not know if it's because the molds were new or re-worked? Any thoughts?
-
This is Summit. While the mold is Westmoreland & while Lily of the Valley was produced in colors they never made Lily of the Valley in Carnival. Its a reproduction.
-
Great to know Ohio. Why is it that when molds are sold and re-used they are not required to remove the original mold manufacturer mark? This would help my confusion on identifying.
-
Actually the answer is fairly simple in the U.S. Unlike copyrights or patents, trademark registration rights can last indefinitely if the owner continues to use the mark to identify goods or services & thats the key since if the owner has been out of business for 10 years the Federal Trademark registration expires & even then if its less than 10 years between the fifth and sixth year after the date of initial trademark registration, the owner must file an "affidavit of use" and pay an additional fee to keep the registration alive plus also file an affidavit and pay a fee within a year before the end of every ten-year period.
So what does that mean? Most of these molds have been sitting around for alot longer than the 5th & 6th year pertaining to the "affidavit of use" because the "owner" has been out of business longer than that (many times its decades)so its fair game with little rules.
Thats the legal answer, the practical answer is if the owner has been gone for years its usually a case of who cares & who has a legal right to do anything about it? So the rule of thumb is know what you are buying before you buy especially if the original company has been out of business for years & know who has the molds & who is reproducing what by whom. Its part of the tuition process.
-
Excellent I had no idea. Where does one find out if molds have been sold, which molds where sold, and who bought them? Also, where may there be molds just waiting to be bought, or collecting dust?
-
You can keep an eye on this group. There is a list that is page after page detailing what company & what mold. I know there will be multiple people tracking who bought what & it in all probability be available on line after the auction, but with 10K molds it will take awhile. Just google the auction results a couple of weeks after it ends to see if anything appears, but again it will probably take awhile. This isn't easy. http://www.ndga.net/articles/fentonauction.php
-
I had heard Fenton was going out of buisness back in 2009. Now that I went to the link and read the article I feel my heart breaking. It did not say where the auction is. I suppose this means over 10,000 molds change hands. I have been to auctions, but no one like this. We are really losing an art form in the US. :(