Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: numbersandlozenges on August 30, 2012, 12:02:24 PM
-
Hello,
Can anyone identify the celery in the picture please. It weighs about 860g, just over 9" (23cm) high, and just under 5" (12.5cm) dia at the top.
There is (or rather was) a lozenge in the base. It looks like 2 digits at the top, the first could be a "2", but not sure, the rest ?
Thanks in advance.
Nos & Loz
-
Just a guess,Molineaux Webb maybe? ;D
-
I thought Molinaux and Webb but couldn't find a similar one , I had one but it was a greek key design with frosted glass .
-
James Derbyshire ???
-
American ???
-
not sure but scroll down to the 7th image on this site and second from left looks as close as I can find, ID'd as Derbyshire
http://www.pressedintime.com/tableware.htm
-
Hmmmmm,
Certainly looks the same, but which Derbyshire? (I'd be inclined towards James, as I have the monster celery from 16/05/1865 (186847), which also has the Greek Key pattern).
Do not have any pictures of their designs except for those in good old Jenny Thompson's book.
So, great so far, but can anyone nail the design date/number??
Cheers
Nos & Loz
-
This does not match any of the Manchester registrations, though bearing in mind how loosely the registrations were applied, it could be an amendment of an existing pattern.
For an example of this problem, look at my page:
https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/molineaux-webb-designs-by-date/molineaux-webb-1868
and registration number 219769
There you will see a celery with a whole frosted body, which matches the registration document, but the next image down shows another example with various shapes cut into the glass, but still bearing the same registration number.
Derbyshire only registered Greek Key designs in 1864 and 1865. They used a rather fat style of Greek Key as shown on your celery image, but there are no examples with the diamond pattern as seen on your celery.
So if we assume this is by them, and they amended an existing pattern, your Greek Key reg numbers are:
180699 (butter cooler with under plate) - Nov 2 1864
186847 (celery) - May 16 1865
189066 (gas moon) - Aug 15 1865
I have all the lozenges drawn out on this page
https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/derbyshire-brothers-designs-by-date/derbyshire-brothers-1864-1865
I would personally have some doubt that it is a Derbyshire piece, but if it is listed as such on the Pressed In Time site, and theirs has a lozenge, presumably they matched it up to Derbyshire.
-
There you will see a celery with a whole frosted body, which matches the registration document, but the next image down shows another example with various shapes cut into the glass, but still bearing the same registration number.
Neil
I suspect the glass maker felt that additional decoration didn't void the design registration because behind that cutting is the same celery with the same frosting. I can't speak to English glass makers because I haven't seen much decorated glass in the catalogs available to me, but for a North American glass maker, a decorated piece (eg a cutting or engraving) didn't get assigned a new pattern name or number. Instead the decoration would be assigned a designation (usually a number) and the catalog would show a celery in pattern ZZZ and a celery in pattern ZZZ with decoration YYY.
Plus they would need to make a new plunger (or mould) without the registry lozenge and that would cost money! LOL
Sid
-
It might be Davidson; that foot with the scalloped edges and a star point in every scallop is very similar to the one on this (no foot photo, sorry)
http://lustrousstone.co.uk/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=433
Mine has a scalloped ridged part on the foot though rather than a plain round one