Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: petet63 on November 02, 2012, 09:11:57 PM
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Hi, I have seen similar pieces attributed to Davidson but cannot find this piece. It is 12.5cm in Diameter with the quote 'A good name is better than riches' Is this a Davidson piece and does anyone have an idea on age.
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I have this same item in transparent blue. This example has embossed characters on the underside that read as follows: 'REGISTERED DESIGN NO 2971'. I don't find this recorded by either Jenny Thompson or Raymond Slack, although Thompson and Slack do list 297157 for Thomas Webb & Sons, Manchester, in 1875. Any thoughts? Much appreciated!
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very interesting....... Despite seeming very obvious that the wording refers to a British Board of Trade Registration No., it's an idea that almost certainly is a non-starter. A four digit No. of this similarity would have been Registered in early March 1884, a few months after the use of lozenges had been abandoned permanently, and as James has commented there is nothing - at least in the reliable sources of Registrations - showing such a number - for CLASS III glass for anyone.
The nearest Davidson Registration I can see off-hand occurs in March 1888, and is a five digit number.
This is either from a mould of another factory, or might it be a George Davidson factory pattern design number? - but doesn't look to have anything to do with Board of Trade Registrations.
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I do not believe that this information could be helpful but I've got a white plate exactly the same as Pete's also without any Rd mark - I might recall that I bought mine down-under... Australia or New Zealand ;D
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hi Pamela - assume from your comments that yours is a white opaque vitro-porcelain example........... as you say, it doesn't really get us any further forward :)
just as a matter of curiosity, I will look at 2971 when I'm at Kew early next week. Davidson not really my area, although believe that some of their C20 Board of Trade designs carried both a U.K. Reg. No. and ditto for Oz - but don't think this method of dual Registration was active in the C19.
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Hi Paul and Pete, sorry no, my plate is clear transparent white, never would have thought that yours, Pete is vitro-porcellain :o :-*
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sorry Pamela - the confusion is no doubt my fault. If we use a glass description of 'white', in English, then we'd be implying it was opaque and probably white vitro porcelain. If we are speaking of something like your example then we'd simply say it's clear glass.
Pete's plate might be described as transparent pale amber, I think, I hope ;D
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;D ;D :-*
I most liked James' description: transparent (blue in his case) 8) :-*
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Paul, please have a look at 297157 (22 Dec. 1875 for Thomas Webb & Sons, Manchester). I think this could be a case of the last two numbers not being put in the mould for some reason.
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Unfortunately, unrelated, as you can see.
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just to say that I've now looked at British Board of Trade Registration 2971 - dated 5th March 1884 - in case it was related to this item in some obscure way.
The answer is, no relation at all, as you can see from the Register page showing this is CLASS 1 - metal - and was allocated to a file cutter of some description.
I couldn't find a picture, but that's academic in the circumstances, and think we've exhausted this one now unless something new turns up.
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Thank you so much, Paul, for your continuous endeavours! :-* :-*
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In the King James translation of the Bible: "A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold" - Proverbs 22:1.
I too have seen a similar [unmarked] plate in transparent pale blue glass, diameter 5 inches, and also one in clear glass.
I have also seen a similar 6 inch diameter plate in clear glass with the embossed legend REGISTERD [sic.] DESIGN.NO 2971 and, significantly, with the 'N's in DESIGN and NO reversed as in a mirror image . So, REGISTERD is mis-spelled, and there is an anomaly in the orientation of the letter 'N's. Interestingly, this was being offered for sale by an Australian seller too.
Now I have photos to show of an 8 inch/200mm diameter plate of the design with the embossed legend REGISTERD DESIGN.NO 2971 (and the reversed Ns in DESIGN and NO) PLUS the embossed legend MADE IN JAPAN (with the 'N' in JAPAN also reversed as in a mirror image) - permission to re-use these images on the GMB granted by dick123.
I'm not sure about glassware specifically, but in America, the McKinley Tariff, which took effect on 1 March 1891, required that all imported goods be marked in English with their country of origin. At the time, NIPPON was considered to be an acceptable name for Japan, so most Japanese ceramics of this period were backstamped NIPPON or HAND PAINTED NIPPON, often with a company logo as well. However, not all were stamped that way. There were still unmarked pieces, and pieces stamped JAPAN as well. Then the U.S. Customs Bureau ruled that NIPPON was no longer an acceptable synonym - as of August 1, 1921 all goods were supposed to be backstamped JAPAN. Technically, the 'Made in Japan' Era began when the 'Nippon' era ended in 1921, but it really was not that precise. At some point the US Customs Bureau may have required that the words MADE IN... be added to the backstamps, but this was not always done. Unmarked pieces sometimes slipped through Customs, but most of the ceramics from 1921 to 1941 are marked either JAPAN or MADE IN JAPAN. The United States occupied Japan from September 1945, until April 1952. The Occupied Japan backstamp Era truly began August 15, 1947 when the first shipment of Occupied Japan ceramics arrived in America. The U.S Customs Bureau decreed in 1949 that Japanese goods could be marked OCCUPIED JAPAN, MADE IN OCCUPIED JAPAN, JAPAN or MADE IN JAPAN.
So it appears as though these ' A Good Name .." glass plates are possibly 1920s-1940s Japanese-manufactured 'looky-likey' imports destined for America, attempting to imitate late 19th century British or American motto glassware (probably British glassware in this instance because of the 'faux' or anomalous design registration number, and the stylistic similarity to late Victorian Greener and Davidson motto glassware).
Pamela's mention that she acquired a similar plate in Australia or New Zealand might also have a bearing in that Japanese glassware for export to America could easily have also found its way to the Antipodes. Moreover, in the mid- to late-1930s, Western designs of all types were being widely copied by the Japanese and sold in Australia. As a result, British manufacturers of glassware and ceramics started to registered designs both in Britain and Australia so that from the late 1930s and into the 1940s articles are seen bearing both British and Australian design registration numbers. [Some Davidson glass designs from the time are commonly found with dual design registration numbers].
Does anyone have photos to show of "A Good Name..." motto glassware of different shape (but similar design), or even the same motto but with a different decorative design to those shown here, please?
Fred.