Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Gary on November 09, 2012, 09:57:21 AM
-
I bought the purple and white bowl last month on an on line auction house sale, at the time I was bidding I was under the impression it was a Monart bowl shape IG, when it arrived it was apparent it was not shape IG. Looking through the Monart catalogue I could not see one of the same shape.
Then one came up on ebay recently, the same shape and size.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ART-DECO-MONART-BOWL-/110974274045?pt=UK_Antiques_
Both bowls have the type of finish on the base and pontil (highly polished) which is indicative of the post 1947 era.
This would explain why the shape is not in the Monart catalogue as no new shapes were added after circa 1938.
The vendor has kindly given me permission to use is images.
Gary
-
Gary, is the pontil mark /button on your bowl highly polished? The photo may be deceptive, but it looks to me as though the base on the purple/white bowl is highly polished but the button pontil mark is actually finely ground but unpolished, i.e. not clear and shiny see-through.
I'm asking because all the bases on my vases are shiny polished but have a finely ground pontil mark, matt not shiny see-through and I'm trying to clarify my understanding of what constitutes an un-finished base and what doesn't if you see what I mean.
thanks :)
m
-
Both are finished. See discussion in other thread.
-
Mystery solved, they are in fact a post war variation of the shape IG.
Link below shows a post war labeled IG shape. Though the vendor has dated his piece wrongly ie 1930s
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Signed-Monart-Art-Glass-Art-Deco-Cluthra-Bowl-Moncrieff-Scotland-Circa-1930s-/150806999837?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231ccc331d
The image is of a pre war version of shape IG.
Gary
-
Top one could be Vasart... then so too could the second which would make that an early Vasart when they still had the original Kugler colours available.
-
Top one could be Vasart... then so too could the second which would make that an early Vasart when they still had the original Kugler colours available.
What makes you think they could be Vasart rather than Monart Frank.
I can only discuss the purple and white bowl as it is the only one I own.
The base finish is the same as number 4 in the link below, which is listed as a Monart type base finish. To date I have not seen a piece of Vasart with that type of base finish.
http://www.ysartglass.com/BaseLabel/Bases.htm
Also the link I provided in a previous post showing a Monart labeled IG piece which is the shape as the purple and white bowl.
Gary
-
Gary - when you say the pontil is highly polished do you mean highly ground? is it still matt?
It looks like the same shape as as one sold recently on ebay - green /yellow listed as monart - "Large Vintage Monart Scottish Art Glass Bowl Green / Golden Yellow Swirl 9 1/2"
I must admit I was baffled by the shape and thought it looked more like a Vasart - though not on ysartglass - but I know there are quite a few shapes missing of the Vasart ones.
But, looking at your neatly ground pontil mark it doesn't look like any on my Vasart - does your bowl have any other grinding around the outer edges? Have we seen any Monart that doesn't have grinding on the base?
What size is yours? It's very nice - can't find the other one though!
Roberta
-
Base pretty much confirms Monart, it was just shape and decoration made me think V for a moment. Plus I doubt you would miss that.
-
Gary - when you say the pontil is highly polished do you mean highly ground? is it still matt?
But, looking at your neatly ground pontil mark it doesn't look like any on my Vasart - does your bowl have any other grinding around the outer edges? Have we seen any Monart that doesn't have grinding on the base?
What size is yours? It's very nice - can't find the other one though!
Roberta
Roberta and M you are correct the pontil is of a matt type finish (ie highly ground) and the base is clear and see thru (ie highly polished). My mistake in my earlier description of pontil finish.
The size of the bowl is 25cm wide and 9cm high.
A lot of the earlier Monart circa 1920s had no grinding to the base, see photo below.
Gary
-
ooh, I LIKE that! can we see the whole piece and colours in all it's glory please? :)
m
-
ooh, I LIKE that! can we see the whole piece and colours in all it's glory please? :)
m
With pleasure M, the shape code is C.
The incandescent effect is much stronger on the base, which is fairly common on Monart.
Gary
-
And yet another stunning piece from Gary's seemingly endless Monart collection!
Where do you live and when will you be out ;) ;D
Roberta
-
Beautiful! so I think it needs to be lit front on to show the colours to their best advantage ?
I have a bit of a struggle to display my 30s collection. If I group according to what I like on the eye, I find that some don't show as they should, because some need backlight or top light to show internal decoration, others needs to be lit from the front .. very irritating ;D
m
-
Joys of glass collecting.
Monart also had some colours that need fluorescent light for best effect.
-
Thanks M and Roberta for your comments on the vase.
At the moment I have it back lit with LED lights in a cabinet, which does not show of the incandescent effect to it's best.
And yet another stunning piece from Gary's seemingly endless Monart collection!
Where do you live and when will you be out ;) ;D
Roberta
To save you from a criminal record by breaking in to my house, below is a link to my Monart collection. Still to add an other 5 pieces to the gallery.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=880
Joys of glass collecting.
Monart also had some colours that need fluorescent light for best effect.
That is I suppose why I like Monart ie a piece can take on a completely different appearance depending on what/where the light is coming from.
Gary
-
Thanks for that Gary, more drooling on my keyboard ;D If I am ever in your neck of the woods maybe I can come and see them in real life!
Question: is the last vase pictured cased or surface decorated?
Roberta
-
Thanks for that Gary, more drooling on my keyboard ;D If I am ever in your neck of the woods maybe I can come and see them in real life!
Question: is the last vase pictured cased or surface decorated?
Roberta
If you are ever in the Fair City of Perth you are more than welcome to come and see my Ysart collection.
Below is a link to some of my Vasart glass, I need to add the rest of the collection to the album.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/thumbnails.php?album=882
If this is the vase you mean, it is cased in clear glass, though the applied foot is surfaced decorated.
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-13440
I have three surfaced decorated pieces, they are the vases, shape C and FA and the bowl DB and they are all on page 1 of the album.
Gary
-
Yet more drooling!
What size is your orange vasart basket? that should be in my collection - swap you for a different colour! ;D
Just going to download pictures of my new bowl - will put them on under a new heading,
many thanks for sharing,
Roberta
-
Yet more drooling!
What size is your orange vasart basket? that should be in my collection - swap you for a different colour! ;D
Just going to download pictures of my new bowl - will put them on under a new heading,
many thanks for sharing,
Roberta
It is larger than the normal sized baskets, standing roughly seven inches tall, at the moment it is in sealed box, so I can't say for certain.
Gary
-
My largest ones are about 5.5" high by about 8", yours must be a giant one! ;D
Roberta
-
Latest addition - is this also an IG Gary? Size VIII (8" diameter)
Foot is part of bowl (i.e. not applied), base is ground and probably polished originally but has loads of base wear, pontil scar is ground out.
Any idea on date?
Roberta
-
You are getting quite a collection of Monart there Roberta. The shape is indeed IG and the colour code is 428. I am fairly certain it is pre 1940.
Gary
-
Yes, I have to keep hiding things in the glass cabinet in the hope the OH doesn't notice! but I now need another cabinet ;D
Have also recently acquired a UB bowl and a MF vase, both with labels, and waiting for another 3 pieces to come plus the questionable OE vase! Can't wait to see your new pieces when they arrive!
Roberta