Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: RAY on April 11, 2006, 05:30:10 PM
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one i got off ebay, i'm sure it was made by Millville, it was called the Millville Rose , the rose was made by a crimp , not to sure on a date any one know? it stands just over 6" high
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/th_b856b6b9.jpg) (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/b856b6b9.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/th_6101b213.jpg) (http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/yorkshirebob/6101b213.jpg)
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Funnily enough Ray, I had that one on watch, because I'd seen it before. I wasn't sure if it was Francis Whittemore or Millville.
I can't help you with the date though.
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Francis Whittemore usually sign's his piece's, thats why i think Millville
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Hello,
I have approximately 200 crimp rose weights in my collection including several original Millville roses & several Murano copies.
The crimp, those leaves, and the workmanship, are all Unmistakably Murano.
Gay Taylor, curator of the Wheaton Village Museum of Glass located in Millville, New Jersey, has recounted that Arthur Gorham, for whom the Wheaton Village paperweight shop in Millville is now named, had Murano artisans make copies of Millville designs in the 1960s & 1970s.
He did this to have product to sell.
There was no intent to deceive.
However nowadays, the Murano copies are often mistaken for the real thing.
Here's a pic of one of my Murano copies that is similar to your weight:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=66&pos=20
Now here is a pic of an Actual Millville baluster stem & footed crimp rose attributed to Ralph Barber. Precious few were actually made:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=66&pos=21
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As crimp rose weights are my first love and because I've shared some info on the subject on this board, I thought it might be good to also share some quality sources of information on the subject:
Edward Minns wrote 2 fine articles on Millville roses and other weights made by workers Whital Tatum circa the turn of the 20th century in Millville, NJ. These articles appeared in 2 issues of American Collector magazine in 1938, much of which was reprised in early Annual Bulletins of the Paperweight Collectors Association.
These can sometimes be found on ebay.
Paul Holister expounded upon the subject too in his book Encyclopedia of Glass Paperweights, published in 1969.
Another good source of information on Millville roses and other Millville weights is Clarence Newell's book Old Glass Paperweights of Southern New Jersey which was published in 1989.
The above 2 books can often be found on ebay.
Also, Gay Lecleire Taylor, curator of The Wheaon Village Museum of Glass, located in Millville, NJ, can be contacted there with questions and requests for information. She has made a close study of original Millville roses.
I myself wrote an article on crimp rose paperweights, Millville & others, in the year 2000 issue of the PCA Annual Bulletin.
So there are some good sources for you all and I hope my contributions to this board are helpful. :D
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thanks for that Mark, whats the pontil finished like on the murano one's?
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The pontil areas are invariably flat, smooth & polished on the great majority of Murano Millville rose copies that I have seen and I have seen many.
However, there is the occasional example that shows remnants on a pontil break. More unusual still is the example with a pronounce pontil break or mark.
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I should add too that I have seen many footed Millville roses and most show a clear pontil break. The bottom of the foot on Millville examples are concave, not flat.
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the one on mine has a hollow ground and polished pontil
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A nicer ground, in my opinion, and I wish they did that with their grounds more often. As I said, they occasionally do that & Murano attribution is still positive.
Here a pic of another Murano baluster stem & footed rose from my collection. Though the rose is yellow it was made with the same crimp. This one has the same green leaf treatment as your does and the stem & foot treatment are the same as well.
I don't have pics available at this time as they are packed away but I also have a Murano ruby rose & a Murano shaded pink rose, both of them also like yours and made with the same crimp.
I might add that all the examples I have seen are in the range of 5.5'' to 6.5'' tall & around 3.5'' or so diameter.:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=66&pos=21
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Oh I found a picture in my files of my Murano baluster stem & footed ruby rose, again with the same translucent green over opaque white leaf treatment as yours has, Ray. The overall presentation is essentaily identical:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=66&pos=20
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Simone asked;
You packed them away Mark? Why?
I have to say that they look similar to Ray's rose, although I never knew Murano made the pedestal ones.
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Well because I simply have too many weights to safely put out on display all at once so I rotate them about :D
Though I sell some on ebay and to collectors I know here in California, my addiction continues as I still buy & trade as well.
Yes, Murano made many footed and pedestal stem & foot rose weights as well as weights with other types of designs that are footed or pedestal stem & footed.
In my opinion, they did a good job.
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Oh for joy!
I found in my files the pictures of my Shaded Pink Murano baluster stem & footed crimp rose that is the same coloration & crimp as Rays'.
Also, it has the same hollowed out, polished pontil like Ray describes his,
pic below:
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=-66&pos=0
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thanks Mark, any idea who made them in murano and what date would you put on them?
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Ray,
I have no idea who in Murano made them but as Gay Taylor of Wheaton Village in Millville, NJ dates Arthur Gorham having them made there as early as the 1960s, then that's a good date to put on them.
Other Qs are; How long did they continue to make them and how many did they make?
We may never know but they do come up on ebay with some irregular regularity, if you know what I mean so they are common enough.
The original Millville article (circa 1905-1912), on the other hand, is extremely rare with only a handful known to be extant.
Millville crimp roses (circa 1905-1912), that are simply footed and do not have the stem are very very hard to find as well.
Recent sales of those have eclipsed as much as $7,500.00 USD (L. H. Selman) and I've never seen one come up on ebay.
Emil Larson, who made footed crimp roses in Vineland, NJ in the 1930s have come up on ebay only twice thus far.
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I bought a pedestal crimped rose thinking it might be murano but it has a silver "H" under the top ball and before the start of the pedestal. Does anyone know who's signature this is. Thanks in advance for your reply.
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2 makers that come to mind are Robert Hamon & Ronald Hansen.
Pictures including top, side, and bottom views would be helpful.
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Here's a few shots of the weight... The silver aventurine capital 'H' is visible in between my thumbs and when looking straight down on the weight... The bottom is slightly concave with the center pontil raised and polished (not ground flat.) The weight itself has a rose and three small bud leaves that look like white with green overlay (that's why I was thinking Murano).
http://www.box.net/shared/s698d81ujx (http://www.box.net/shared/s698d81ujx)
http://www.box.net/shared/0o6zs0i50p (http://www.box.net/shared/0o6zs0i50p)
http://www.box.net/shared/pjb41fuci4 (http://www.box.net/shared/pjb41fuci4)
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That's Robert Hamon's frit (powdered glass) signature cane.
I have several in my collection.
Thank you for sharing.