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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => Bohemia, Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic, Austria => Topic started by: obscurities on February 03, 2013, 07:17:27 PM

Title: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: obscurities on February 03, 2013, 07:17:27 PM

OK.... while i am at it.....  Another amazing find for not much money in a local antique mall a couple of weeks ago....  I expected it to be cracked or chipped, or severely damaged when I saw it and then saw the price. The only saving grace was that they were not sure it was Loetz and had a ? on the tag....   No ? for me.... knew it the second I saw it.... even from across the room...

Stands at approx 8 inches tall and a touch under 6 inches wide at the body. the shape drawing indicates 4 pinches which are also present on the piece...... 

A really nice sized example at a un-sizely price....  my favorite combination...

Craig

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: flying free on February 03, 2013, 11:25:21 PM

Nice find and a good size :)  I like the symmetry of the shape.
m

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: obscurities on February 04, 2013, 06:19:56 PM

Thanks M,  It is quite a bit larger in person than the dimensions have it seem.  Other than my Rosa Argentan vases, it is the largest piece of Loetz I own....

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: flying free on February 04, 2013, 07:07:58 PM

Is the iridescence on yours a  different colour Craig, or is it just light?  I meant is it blueish?  and does the green (creta) ground come in different greens?
Just wondering about one of mine.
m

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: obscurities on February 04, 2013, 07:40:25 PM

It can vary with angle and lighting. Papillon's also vary quite a bit in terms of iridescence.  Loetz also used different grounds in green. Post some pics in the thread here and let me take a look at it.... I won't consider it hijacking...   ;D

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: flying free on February 04, 2013, 07:56:50 PM

oh ok then  ;D thanks
I've attached a pic - very hard to photograph because of the angle of the wall of the vase, so however you shine the light the iridescence 'flattens' the oilspots.
It's 5 1/4" high by 6" wide and the foot is 4" diameter with a very large 2 1/2" diameter pontil mark.
m

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: obscurities on February 04, 2013, 08:10:45 PM

Can I see the underside please?   ;D

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: flying free on February 04, 2013, 08:42:18 PM

will do - and oops , the pontil mark is 2 1/8" diameter not 2 1/2" - I was trying to remember all the measurements without doing them one by one as I typed  ;D

The iridescent spots are gold but reflect purples and gold .  I've turned the base so that the iridescence doesn't shine to show the pattern.
I think I'd come to think mine was Loetz oilspot Cisele ? wracking my brains.
m

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: obscurities on February 04, 2013, 09:32:34 PM

I think I would classify this is a Creta Palillon. My take on it would be that it is a later piece as opposed to earlier.  Papillon was produced for a rather long time. It was quite popular.  You will also find a pretty wide variation in Papillon decors through the years. To me, Ciselé is more mottled on the surface, and I generally associate it will some lighter grounds and different overall color range than this piece of yours.... just my humble opinion though....

Nice example though... strong colors and good decor treatment. My gut would be that this is post WWI.... but that is gut only....
nothing else really to base it on...

Craig

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: flying free on February 04, 2013, 09:38:22 PM

Thanks so much :)
 I can't remember which site to be honest but I  think there was a pic of a rather bright green oil spot with what seemed to be elongated gold spots on the Loetz.com site and it was id'd as Cisele oilspot - the colour and the gold I think it what made me think mine was.  But having had a cisele vase the spots and the surface was very different to this one.

I also thought it was post WW1, I can't remember what I read that made me think that though  ::) was there a kind of 'revival' of some of the decors such as Olympia or something?  And perhaps because the shape reminds me of an Olympia vase I have, I assumed they were both later pieces.  (note to self - write down research :) )
m

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: obscurities on February 04, 2013, 09:49:10 PM

If you look on Loetz.com under the decor index, they list Papillon in the Pre 1900 category and also in the 1920-1940 decor list. If you click on the decor name in the 1920-1940 list you will see examples there which are more, in my opinion, like the decor application on your bowl. The shade of green also strikes me as a little later green... but that can also just be pics....

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: flying free on February 04, 2013, 10:51:34 PM

thanks Craig :) I'll take another look now.
the colour of my pic is representative of the vase, it's a very intense deep lime green.  I love it as it zings up any display and fits in with most things.
m

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: obscurities on February 04, 2013, 11:00:49 PM

Always my pleasure.... 

Craig

Title: Re: Loetz Creta Papillon - ca 1900 Production p/n 7729
Post by: flying free on April 03, 2019, 08:23:40 PM

just wondering if mine might be called Grun Cisele?

Cross-reference to another thread with a bowl with what appears to be the same colour and decor:

https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,67851.msg377552.html#msg377552