Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: flying free on February 24, 2013, 04:11:45 PM
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I'd really appreciate any information at all on this piece as I have absolutely no idea where to start.
It's engraved with ferns and leaves and I think wheel engraved? all the decoration is matt and shows the wheel striations or lines.
It's very big at 9 1/4" tall 4 1/4" widest and 4" diameter foot. My photo is angled so doesn't show it well, but the foot is wider than the rim which is only 3 3/4" wide.
The pontil mark is beautifully polished.
The ring of wear around the foot is right on the very edge of the foot as it is raised and the wear is completely matt. The foot is quite thick, the glass overall is quite 'thick', not fine delicate glass as it were.
The rim is firepolished.
Thank you for looking and for any information at all.
m :)
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Could it be a hyacinth vase? looks 20th century,maybe Stuart,just been looking at 20th Century B.Glass,don't remember seeing anything similar,if it is a hyacinth vase then maybe Patricia is the person to ask, ;D ;D
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I think it might be a bulb vase too
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With a 3"opening ? That is enough to let any bulb fall through - so I vote NO for technical reasons.
Ferns are a popular theme around 1850 - I think that is the period +/_ 10
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Large onion ? ::) ;D ;D
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It's not a celery, you'd not get much in. How big is the inside opening?
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The only bulb that would sit in the neck would be an amaryllis bulb. But I wasn't sure they would have made bulb vases for amaryllis?
the opening at the neck is about 2 3/4" and I thought this was too wide as well.
I thought I had read somewhere that around mid 19th was when celery vases had this 'bulb' type outward curve at the neck, I thought Neil posted something about a Molineaux Webb pressed celery vase with that feature iirc?
Which reminds me, I'll go have a search and see if I can find that thread.
m
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Our posts crossed Christine :)
The diameter at the opening is 2 3/4" and looking at it I think you might get one 'bunch' of celery in if you see what I mean?
I'll have to have a good look at dimensions for other celery vases and see if it matches then.
m
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This was a Molineaux Webb post I remembered - they're not really the same shape (memory not that great after all ;D)
but I suppose there are some similarities
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,30573.msg165698.html#msg165698
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So would the opening be too big for an amaryllis bulb, or is it unlikely it would have been made for that anyway? Can I discount bulb vase as a possibility?
m
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you can discount bulb vase.
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thank you :)
m
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Keith was thinking of the Stuart 'Woodchester' fern perhaps.
Take it that someone's looked through Patricia's book and assume there's nothing that comes close??
Never seen a celery remotely with a pan topped shape - agree re the fern being second half C19 style, but usually they're seen with much lighter and more of a free hand shallow wheel engraving - not with this deeper Stuart type of cut. Was going to say Continental with that vertical series of punty like ovals, but really no idea.
Assume it's not lead glass
C19 pieces that were created with pan tops, were made as such because something additional was placed in the top - so all we have to do is discover what went in the top and we're home and dry. It's a very large 'top' glass for a sweetmeat salver ;)
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thank you.
It rings.
I can't see that anything sat in the top :-\
Any thoughts on whether it might be earlier than mid to late 19th?
m
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ps, there is a black 'seed' in the foot and also a few stray bubbles and the edge of the foot is 1/8" thick.
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see posts above in answer to Paul's questions.
Don't laugh ;D but I'm just linking to some odd shaped early glass I came across trying to 'brainstorm' why my vase might have this shape.
I did wonder if it was perhaps supposed to have some sort of lid on it maybe as one option
I don't *think* it's supposed to be the other way up but here's an odd two piece tazza with a pedestal stand attached -
http://www.antiqueglass.co.uk/Enlargement.php?StockID=258
here's a lidded honey jar with what looks like a pan top rim - maybe mine is a large storage pot/jar of some sort? -
http://www.antiqueglass.co.uk/Enlargement.php?StockID=180
m
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Pteridomania didn't really get going until the 1850s but I'm not sure those are really ferns; too geometric for Victorian ferns.. I would perhaps put the style late 19th C
That tazza looks wrong. The top is far too small
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yes I thought the tazza looked a bit strange and I couldn't see that the decoration matched the stand.
I think they are stylised ferns, but not 'freestyle'. I've just picked up 20th c British Glass (C.Hajdamach) and on page 30 there is a Stevens and Williams vase with a pan top dating to 1903. Again at first glance it has that 'bulb vase possibly' type look, but checking the sizes it is 12" tall and it does appear that the neck opening is wide like mine, so probably a design style not a bulb holder vase.
m
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I've just been through two volumes of Silber & Fleming, and really can't come up with any useful suggestions. My feeling is that date wise this comes into the C20 - in the C19, as we've discussed, the fern decoaration was far more loose. whispish and shallow than shown on this piece.
If you don't object m, I'm attaching a couple of pix of typical second half C19 fern wheel engraving to show the difference.
I don't think the seed and few bubbles are enough to define a particular age, unfortunately. :)
An unusual carafe and tumbler possibly :-\
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Ok, thank you Paul for looking through, I really appreciate it :)
I'll up load one more pic in a mo but here are some observations:
I've photographed the 'rim' of the top close up and there are signs of wear on it under close magnification (not possible to see with just casual looking , so it's not obvious wear) - the photo shows one part of the rim but the wear seen on it is around the whole rim.
There are no really obvious signs of significant wear inside the piece, but the base wear right round the edge of the rim of the foot is very signficant, in that it has ground through to a completely matt ring.
So here are some thoughts:
It is possible of course that somone has stood a plate on it, or similar, in storage and hence the wear to the top rim - and of course owners stories could mean anything, but the owner told me her father (old) had said it had sat in his mother's cabinet all his life and that he believed it was an old piece. Obviously as I say owner's stories can be misleading, but to be honest I believe him. Obviously that doesn't indicate how old I know that.
So let's say I believe him, and it's sat in his mother's display cabinet for many, many years.
Added to which there are no very obvious signs of internal wear on it.
How does it then have such a matt ring of wear on the base?
It's a large and fairly heavy piece but not massively heavy.
So perhaps it's possible that it's either older than late 19th early 20thc?
or that it did have something sitting atop it, balanced in the pan top, not touching any of the interior of the pan top but which was sufficiently heavy enough to grind against the top rim and also made the whole piece heavy enough to cause such a great degree of wear to the foot - possibly a lid?
m
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Regular dusting and washing (upside down draining) would create that level of wear. If the father is say as old as my mother (85), all his life only takes you back to 1927 and anther 50 years back is still only 1877. How round is the foot? How round is the top?
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both look symmetrical and measuring them show a possibly variation of 1/32" which I think would probably be acceptable anyway - yes they would both be considered round and symmetrical. The glass of the foot has lots of striations in it.
I agree the washing and draining upside down would show that - good thought :)
There is no evidence of washing or water mark inside.
m
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completely off the wall thought ......... in view of the fern type of engraving/cutting, made me wonder if it had been a flower tube or unusual vase of some description (but not bulb vase).
Sorry, I wasn't implying 1950......but rather somewhere at the very beginning of the C20.