Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Baked_Beans on April 01, 2013, 07:59:35 AM
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I think this vase is Harrach (I might be wrong) , I'm pretty sure I saw a pair of them on 'Flog It' once.
It's not really of any great value , I bought it, missing it's handle, with an idea of having one made in a similar green just so it would look nicer on my shelf (not intending to sell it).
Is it possible to have this addition made or have I lost the plot :o ?
Any comments would be most appreicated , thanks for having a look, it's 15cm tall.
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The green applied handles indicate Stourbridge to me.
Attila
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Hello Attila, hope to see you at the National Glass Fair (http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/) on 12th May?
As for the handle, you could try contacting Richard Lamming of Redhouse Glass Crafts (http://ruskinglasscentre.co.uk/tennants/redhouse-glass-crafts/), who's based in Stourbridge: 01384 399460 and repairs glass to a very high standard. It will need co-operation from a glassworker as well, so Richard is best placed.
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HI ,
I would imagine the best method of repairing this would be to find a ceramics restorer , they can take a mould from the intact handle and make the replacement in resin that can be tinted to match the colour ,the problem with getting a glass replacement would be to find someone who was making glass with a batch in that colour , to make a batch for 1 little handle I would think would be impractical.
cheers,
Peter.
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Thanks very much indeed for your comments , so very helpful !
I know what you mean about the applied handles and legs Attila , I'm pretty sure the similar vases on Flog It were described as Harrach , if my dubious memory can be relied upon . I will continue to have a look on the internet at Stourbridge examples.
Is it possible to buy/use glass rods with a similar green and fashion a handle from one ?
I will try to contact Richard , thanks David.
Failing that , I will go down the resin route as you suggest Peter.
Thanks all , very much ;)
Cheers, Mike.
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aah that's beautiful Mike. And the enamelling reminds me very much of my large jug with drips that we've been looking at.
This is an Auguste Jean version here just for interest. I think yours is Harrach also :)
http://www.madforglass.es/french/french_374bb.html
m
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It would probably be easier and cheaper to have the other side taken down to match , not ideal but what is ?
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Thanks m ,
When I saw it , it did remind me of your jug but the enamelling (as you can see) falls well short of the exceptional quality of your wonderful example . I hope you manage to find out who the enameller was on yours.
It was Anita Manning (the very nice Scottish lady who speaks slowly and emphasizes her words ...ideal for me :) ) who described the pair of vases as Harrach on a Flog It episode . I've been trying to find it on BBC iplayer but it's no longer available .
Thanks John for the suggestion :P.......you're not a cowboy builder by any chance ;) ?
I will have a go at having it restored (despite the cost) just to see what sort of a result can be achieved .
Cheers, Mike.
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Only sandcastles Mike , I just don't like lopsided things other than the tower of Pizza ( its fear of the Domino effect )
:D cheesy grin :D Double that is . ;D
Now being serious . Eugene Rousseau did a lot of that style of glass under the direction or influence of Emile Galle he never seems to get a mention on the forum .
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lol :D
Ivo came up with this superb link the other day on another thread....
http://www.millon-associes.com/html/fiche.jsp?id=2023780&np=10&lng=fr&npp=20&ordre=1&aff=1&r=
Rousseau must be the Great Grandfather of modern Studio Art Glass !
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Oh dear, that is just horrible! :o
I had to run off and check dates - to see if Rousseau was before Marinot, (which he was, darn it! :P ).
But that thing is... ugly glass of the century contender? ;)
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He is one of my favourite glassies I do have one of his vases I found about 35 years ago unfortunately I don't have a Marinot after searching about 45 years . :'( Victor Arwas and Dan Klien were fans of Rousseau. . Men of good taste.
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Rousseau is one of my heroes of glass :)
I think he was an utterly amazing designer and pushed extraordinary boundaries in creating new glass techniques and beautiful pieces. I have one Leveille (or Rousseau) vase .... I'd sell most of my collection to have more 8)
Janine Bloch-Dermant in The Art of French Glass says
'Francois-Eugene Rousseau (1827-1891)
'... More important, Rousseau was one of the first to take up the manufacture of overlay or cased glass made with two or three differently coloured layers. In doing so he revived a technique known to the Venetians and Chinese in the 18th century. And this took place at a moment when Galle was still decorating monochrome glass'. (my underlining to demonstrate a point)
'In it's glyptic or cold state, Rousseau had the superficial layer (overlay) of opaque, and often intensely coloured, glass carved as if it were stone (plate 22). In passages where this occurred he revealed the under layer of glass, and since this foundation had been left translucent, the effects obtained by the casing and the carving were both bold and refined.'
Rousseau was an amazing designer I think -
it says
' Rousseau knew no chemistry; thus, his technical collaboration with the Appert brothers became increasingly important.'
m
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Taste is subjective, M! It may be well made and pushing boundaries, but I still reckon that lump is just hideous.
It might go well with a ton or so of ormalu! ;)
Would a bit of ormalu tacked on fix the appearance of Baked Beans handle?
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Nice one M I knew there were gals with taste on the forum . 8)
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Hey Sue when it's done (with or without ormolu) I'll post pic's , if it doesn't shatter ( & the enamelling melts) in the process ::)
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It would not look right without some sort of replica handle.
I'm even wondering about some moulded plastic or perspex.
What about that plastic resin you used to get to make paperweights with? You mix it with something, pour it and it sets.
But adding glass to it with heat would be a complete no-no, I cannot see it being accomplished well and without hurting the thing as a whole. And you can't display it with the broken bit to the back - it just doesn't look right.
But you could ormalu-ise the intact handle to make it match a faked ormalu bit
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Sue you are absolutely right and that might not be the best example to show, but I'm sure you will love many other of his examples of glass - many of those I've seen are exactly your 'thing' :)
JP, taste is in the eye of the beholder though isn't it :) I was at the V&A last year and had been hankering after a piece of Andre Thuret glass, however I was so disappointed when I saw a piece there. It was nowhere near as technically inspiring as many other pieces I've seen by other makers. It's gone to the bottom of my list of 'would likes' but I'm sure he must have made other pieces that I would love.
With regards the handle, I have seen ancient glass repaired with a matching plastic 'insert' - I thought that was a sound way to repair glass - no damage to what it left and it 'looks' right from a distance.
I like Sue's idea of somehow ormolu'ising' the handle. 'I' would like that, but then I love a bit of gilt ;D
m
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A quick google on "making plastic paperweights" turned up a few references to using epoxy or acrylic resins and a mould!
http://isearch.avg.com/search?q=Plastic+paperweight+making&sap=dsp&lang=en&mid=97b1fcedaed85e724143486d8fff707a-9a17500a96d428a5cdb8b2643968b9a928fc107f&cid={905AA686-FF2A-4C1D-B535-C0260CE650C4}&v=14.2.0.1&ds=AVG&d=10%2F5%2F2012+10%3A33%3A34+AM&pr=fr&snd=hdr&pid=avg&sap_acp=0
http://www.ehow.com/how_8634350_encase-resin.html
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Thanks Sue , I think you are right about the heat , I might just have to abandon the whole idea .
It could be possible to make a modelling clay handle (that looks like the other) and then mould it in it's position on the vase using latex rubber , remove the whole, remove the clay and then cast using a tinted resin then stick it on..... It might be worth an attempt.
I really wanted to know if it could be done with glass though and I think you've answered my question . ;)
I will take it along to Bristol Blue Glass , which is only a couple of miles away, and see what they say ......"you can have any colour handle you like as long as it's blue" :o
I've just seen your posts Sue & m ....thanks very much !
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Hi ,
As I said in my post above , ceramics restorers will take a mould from the intact handle ,make a resin copy in the same colour and then attach it to the damaged part,the results I have seen with others in the past are most acceptable and most people would not be able to tell visually that it had been done , any attempts to produce a glass handle replacement is I am afraid probably a non starter.
cheers ,
Peter.
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I think I would go with your suggestion Peter.
This is a masterpiece of beautiful glass, the likes of which we see so much less of these days, when swirls of colours and 'happenstance' patterning are de rigueur, and the careful placement of decoraton is seen so much less frequently in modern pieces.
This is well worth restoring the balance of the piece without the risk of destroying it or altering it to look like something that was never intended.
Whether you restore it or not BB, it is a treasure to own, who ever made it.
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I believe a matching piece could be made in glass but would probably need to be joined with the magic glass glue , I bet Basil could do it , but not cheap for a one off .
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;D I will take that bet ;D ,
cheers ,
Peter.
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Why Peter , does he not make replacement pieces for many glassies . ??? ;) I had a penguin with the beak missing a friend of mine purchased it and it was reheated and the beak was pulled out the guy who made it originally said you cant see the difference . miracles do happen now and again .
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Basil himself does not make replacement parts this is out sourced , but yes he then uses those parts for restorations but mostly in clear glass , the colour would be very difficult to match and you would have to make a batch of glass , very very expensive,the part would most likely have to be free formed , ie not in a mould and the result could be very hit and miss , too many possibilities for the replacement to look pretty dreadful I think ,the area around the remains of the original handle would also have to be prepared to receive the replacement part , ie bits ground off to give a flat gluing surface,
I just see lots of problems and huge cost for the attempts , so I can only say again, what i have seen done to glass items with replacement resin parts has always looked very good.
cheers,
Peter.
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[quote I had a penguin with the beak missing a friend of mine purchased it and it was reheated and the beak was pulled out the guy who made it originally said you cant see the difference . miracles do happen now and again .
[/quote]
Yep I can see how that would work very well , however the techniques involved are completely different.
cheers ,
Peter
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So Peter its not impossible just very expensive and difficult , for a man with your money and patience that would be a doddle , see you at Brum to collect my winnings . :D ;)
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;D Basil will be there(Foyer Exhibition) http://www.glassfairs.co.uk/exhibition.html, in his capacity as a collector , not really with his restorers hat on but if he says that an acceptable glass repair is possible in preference to a good resin repair then the buns are on me, :'(
Cheers,
Peter.
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LOL :D
John , we met at Cambridge once , you were propping-up the bar (as per-usual ;) ) , I was with Tony and you were looking at my marriage of an inkwell (rather disparagingly :-[ ).......does Basil do mates of a mate rates...mate ;D ?
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Mike I have no mates I am a cantankerous old Bustard .... aint you noticed . Ask Sue and her Mates . ;D
The Devils Advocate , jp
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Yes , I know ;)
Thanks Rosie, Peter (& John ::) ) very much for your comments , it would great to be able to restore the balance of this piece and it is worth doing, but quite a difficult task it seems.
It would be interesting to know if it could be achieved in glass but I think resin would be simpler (& cheaper) perhaps ?
Ta, Mike.
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Hi ,
As I said in my post above , ceramics restorers will take a mould from the intact handle ,make a resin copy in the same colour and then attach it to the damaged part,the results I have seen with others in the past are most acceptable and most people would not be able to tell visually that it had been done , any attempts to produce a glass handle replacement is I am afraid probably a non starter.
cheers ,
Peter.
Any form of hot glass process to attach a replacement handle is likely to result in further damage to the vase, so I would strongly advise against this. However, it would actually be possible to use a similar technique as described by Peter to create a handle in glass rather than resin by producing this in a kiln by lost wax casting. However, the cost of this is likely to be prohibitive. The glass handle would then need to be attached with an adhesive or resin.
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Cheers Adam isn't that what I said ? I hope they do hot buns at Brum Peter . ;D ;) Loadsamonaaaayyyy.
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Hee Hee ;D
I still think my pennies are safe , the bet was to quote , "I bet Basil could do it ", I still say Basil could not . boom boom .
Cheers ,
Peter.
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I may have to come to Brum to witness this bun fight!! ;D
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Thanks All,
I'm going to start rereading 'Mould Making For Glass' by Angela Thwaites , I bought it ages ago and found it a bit complicated , so I put it down . ???
Hope you all have a great time in Brum !..............
"......Glass is more gentle, graceful, and noble than any metal and its use is more delightful, polite, and sightly than any other material at this day known to the world. "........... Antonio Neri , 1612.
Nothing has changed since 1612 !
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Resin and plastic are cxap ;D
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:)
I've had another idea with this ....
How about making a mould of the two green blobs (where the handle was once attached) and the curve of the glass vase around the blobs and then casing this in a silicon-based plaster. So in effect you end up with a copy of a section of the vase in a material that can stand the heat.
Then you find some glass of a similar colour and use that to free-form a handle similar to the other as you would if you were making the vase normally.
This could then be put in an annealing oven and once cold the glass handle could then be removed from the silicon-plaster mock-up of the vase and stuck to the glass vase. Hopefully the ends of the new handle would then sit perfectly on the uneven broken bits on the green blobs.
Could this work ?
I'm concerned that a lost wax method would produce a matt finish which would be difficult to polish.
Here is a place near Bristol which sells all sorts to do the job !
http://www.warm-glass.co.uk/
Ta Mike :D
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Correction.....should read... 'casting this in a silicon-based plaster....'
The only thought I have had about this idea is that the glass might not stick to the silicon plaster but is it possible to increase the silicon content of the mix just enough to get the glass to stick ?
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Don't try this at home
;)
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I wasn't going to ;) ....I could make a mould of the vase but would there be any chance of it working as an idea ?
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If it goes wrong you wont have a leg to stand on . ::) :o
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;D The legs are fine ...it's the handle I'm wanting to muster :P
Do I really have to resort to resin ? .......someone throw me a bone here :-*
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My honest opinion? Look for a new vase ;D
m
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HI ,
Not really quite sure why you made this comment , Do I really have to resort to resin ? , resin in various forms has for many many years and is still today used by museum conservators and restorers when it comes to glass, why ? the results are good , reverseable and cause no further damage or alterations to the original glass,and cheaper than other alternatives.
cheers,
Peter.
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Thanks m & Peter very much for your comments.
m, it's a very justifiable view point ....and I'm seriously considering it !
Peter, I wholeheartedly agree with you ! I really thank you for your suggestion !
I entirely understand the fact that matching the colour of the glass is a real problem and that resin is the only cheaper solution .
The only last point I wish to make is that it might be possible to make a high silicon-content/plaster section of the vase and then use that to attach and form a glass handle (as I suggested above) . I think a lost wax method would produce a matt finish which would be too difficult to polish. It's an idea that I thought could possibly work , I might well go down that line of thought and see if it works on any colour of glass (blue perhaps ;)) . But it will just be an experiment in that colour. If it works it will be interesting :)
Failing this, I hope I will be able to follow your sound advice ,Peter , and have a resin handle made ;)...I promise to post photos if so !!
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, I really do appreciate it, and I promise ....I haven't lost the plot !!
Cheers, Mike.
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Mike, I actually think your vase is unusual with the applied green feet and trailing. It's very pretty, I really like it - I often see them with brown or blue but haven't spotted many with the green.
I would also say take a look around the Museo del Vetro and look at the Salviati pieces they have there - it's an online resource - the Salviati pieces aren't much earlier than your vase and many of them are in bits...literally :) but they are just as beautiful, simply stunning regardless of all the frilly bits missing and chipped rims etc. and the museum thinks them deemed worthy of stunning photographs and an online resource! missing bits and all.
m
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Thanks m
What a great website it is ! I just typed in Salviati and pressed search here.......
http://www.archiviodellacomunicazione.it/Sicap/opac.aspx?WEB=MuseiVE&LNG=ENG
I like the way they photograph glasses, without a foot, upsidedown and then they turn the photo through 180 degrees ! It does make me feel better about accepting damage though....it's good therapy ;)
I did buy the vase to try and restore it though, thinking it might be a fairly easy task,...how wrong can I be...it's a real challenge !
Ta very much, Mike.