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Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Bernard C on April 23, 2013, 05:40:51 PM

Title: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Bernard C on April 23, 2013, 05:40:51 PM: See four GlassGallery images here (http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-18687), each with click image to enlarge feature.

Height of Vase 7¼" 18.5cm. Total height assembled 10½" 27.0 cm. Weight of Vase 1lb 9½oz 725g. Total weight 2lb 3oz 991g.

Main cut pattern repeat of 6. Above and below this are two interlocking rows of 12 flake cuts, coordinated with the main cut pattern. Scalloped rim and neatly ground and polished base.

Any ideas on manufacturer and date? I've been through my material once, particularly the Walsh pattern books in Reynolds, but haven't found the cut pattern, although I could easily have missed it. The actual glass vase is unlikely to appear in trade catalogues and trade advertisements as glass made for metalbashers was kept quite separate, sometimes warranting a special catalogue.

Thanks for your interest,

Bernard C. 8)
Title: Re: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Paul S. on April 23, 2013, 06:42:25 PM: Regret I'm unable to help remotely Bernard, but have to ask the obvious question ........... what in particular makes you say celery? Have you previously seen a celery in a stand of any kind, and wouldn't the glass shape, plus the stand, suggest flower vase? - a single large epergne of sorts, perhaps.
Title: Re: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Bernard C on April 23, 2013, 09:01:54 PM: Paul — See The Silber & Fleming Glass & China Book (1990 reprint), p.235:-
No. 7943. — Celery Stand, electro-silver plated on nickel silver, cut glass.
Silber & Fleming is invaluable for contemporary terminology.

Bernard C. 8)
Title: Re: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 23, 2013, 09:12:11 PM: That one looks quite a lot wider and more suitable for celery...
Title: Re: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Paul S. on April 23, 2013, 09:41:08 PM: many thanks Bernard - I'm a great fan of S. & F. and do have the volume of which you speak - I also have the other S. & F. reprint volume entitled "The Victorian Catalogue of Household Goods", which was originally published in 1883 as "The Illustrated Catalogue of Furniture and Household Requisites". Although equally interesting, this is a smaller volume, and possibly not so useful as it contains less data on glass related subjects - it repeats, on page 60, the image of the celery vase and stand of which you speak.
Must admit it is the only occasion when I've been aware of seeing a celery within a stand, and I suspect most people would not have associated it with that vegetable. On occasions such as this where there may be difficulty in relating an image to a use, it is always helpful to quote the source.
You may well be correct, but regret to say that, for me, the S. & F. picture doesn't prove beyond reasonable doubt that yours is for the same purpose - I'm just having trouble with the shape of the glass, and the style of frame.
You're right about the usefulness of S. & F. though - great for Victorian utility wares, their names and uses. :)
Title: Re: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Paul S. on April 23, 2013, 09:48:55 PM: Hello Bernard - also meant to add that since you are aware of the S. & F. image, and thus the catalogue from which it comes, you will no doubt have some idea of the date of manufacture of your piece - give or take a little.
I notice that I have pencilled onto the publishing date page of my copy that this catalogue was published in the quite early 1880's - so this should suggest that your piece was already in manufacture by then, and may have been around since the early to mid 1870's.
I hope these suggestions are of help. :)
Title: Re: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Bernard C on April 24, 2013, 02:57:39 AM: Quote from: Lustrousstone on April 23, 2013, 09:12:11 PM
That one looks quite a lot wider and more suitable for celery...

Christine — agreed, but I did consider this. I've seen marked "celery" vases that wouldn't take just one stick of celery, and celery might have been improved over the years. So I don't believe the name was considered a restriction on use for flowers or whatever. In the same way I've seen piano insulators used in a house under almost every piece of furniture except the dining chairs — not just the piano. As the S&F example is the only documented example I have seen, I will keep to their terminology. I hope you are not suggesting I invent a name for this mounted style of vase.

Quote from: Paul S. on April 23, 2013, 09:48:55 PM
Hello Bernard - also meant to add that since you are aware of the S. & F. image, and thus the catalogue from which it comes, you will no doubt have some idea of the date of manufacture of your piece - give or take a little.
I notice that I have pencilled onto the publishing date page of my copy that this catalogue was published in the quite early 1880's - so this should suggest that your piece was already in manufacture by then, and may have been around since the early to mid 1870's.
I hope these suggestions are of help. :)

Paul — It's not that simple. I've had three or four of this mounted style of vase through my hands over the years, and one was quite definitely 1930s, not earlier. So we have a period of manufacture of the style of at least around sixty years. Hence my request for a date.

Bernard C. 8)
Title: Re: English EPNS-mounted Celery, unmarked
Post by: Lustrousstone on April 24, 2013, 06:28:04 AM: The "marked" celery vases were a way of avoiding luxury goods tax and not necessarily anything to do with celery, and also considerably newer than this item.

Quote
I hope you are not suggesting I invent a name for this mounted style of vase.
What's wrong with mounted vase...particularly as you don't know what your was marketed as.