Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Paul S. on May 14, 2013, 06:23:15 PM
-
well, wouldn't you just throw this in the bin if you didn't know better :o
According to Barrie Skelcher this is a type of glass known as Graniver which was produced by Leerdam (Dutch) in the mid 1920's - for all I know maybe they still make it, but I've put 'Graniver Leedrdam' and 'Graniver' in the search and nothing comes up - so either it's rare, or I've got it wrong. In the flesh it's a little more limey than the picture in the book which appears more creamey.
In case you can't see them, there are relief moulded honey bees around the lid and pot, but not easy to see in the pic. Skelcher describes the glass as having a "coarse, ceramic like finish and is made by using coarse sand in the mix. It is a pressed article"
It really is of a very modern looking tacky manufacture, and I thought just what re-cylced glass might appear as, and nearly binned it - having only picked it up because of the obvious uranium content - I'd never have thought it had age.
Stands 5.25" (135mm) tall with lid in place - and no marks that I can see.
Can anyone add any further information?? Was Graniver made in uranium only?? Thanks for looking. :)
Ref. 'The Big Book of Vaseline Glass' (Schiffer) - Barrie Skelcher - 2002. - (page 150).
-
You might want to try looking up Granvier glas :)
and we have completely different tastes obviously as I think it's gorgeous ;D
I've seen this design in blue and the orange and a different design in a green but not the same as yours
http://www.kanne-kruike.nl/Verkocht-Sold/verkochtgroot/Verkoop080.html
The blue one describes it as a Cactus pot and says it was designed by Copier
These seem to sell for quite a bit of money
http://www.antiekenkunst.nl/nl/dept_14.html
They're fabulous - way way ahead of their time in terms of design
m
-
I think it might not be because when we went to Netherlands the yellow Granvier we saw wasn't uranium to my surprise :'(
PS I love it and know a very good home for it.
-
yes it does look like the same kind of glass, but the design of the honey pot is quite different to the stark designs of the flower/cactus pots and I couldn't see the same kind of green in looking around.
Did you buy one anyway though? they are superb :)
m
-
No; it's expensive and didn't meet any of my collecting criteria
(PS there are quite a lot of inaccuracies in Skelcher0
-
you are good - I wish I had collecting criteria - my only criteria is 'oooh that's nice' ;D (and the money obviously)
m
-
You know my criteria are pretty stretchy...
-
;D
-
Did I ever mention I started with a few pieces uranium, then I came here and...
we know what happened to my criteria. You know I like you all - not at least
because this is all your fault. ;D 8) :P
-
I can only blame mine on lack of focus and the attention span of a flea :)
I have a low boredom threshold.
m
-
I blame my several of my collections on coming here.. Mdina and other Maltese glass, paperweights, bulb vases
-
Not Graniver glass which has sand in it and it feels like it - but opaque uranium. Leerdam most probably - just not Graniver.
-
thanks Ivo - I had typed a reply to the other folk and you pipped me to the post - can you suggest an approximate date please.
What I was about to send was.................
quote................."and we have completely different tastes obviously as I think it's gorgeous" ......... sorry m, all I can see is a retro style i.e. something from the 1950's - although some of the others you mention have a distinct deco style, and that is something I go for in a big way - deco never seems quite to go out of fashion.
For me this has novelty interest only - it doesn't make me say 1920's ...... I'm trying to be more tolerant of other people's tastes - but is it my fault the world is full of philistines ;) ;) ;)
But to be serious for a moment...........
What is obvious in this pot is the granular appearance within the glass (although the surface is smooth) - I haven't the time this evening to follow up your links, but will look later, but there is a similarity with some of the grainy/gritty textures on other pieces you've linked. But quite probably Leerdam as Ivo now suggests.
Sorry to hear Dirk is blaming us for his expanding collection - time perhaps for another hug for him ;)
Christine - I'll consider parting with it, and let you know when I decide - meantime thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions. :)
-
http://www.etsy.com/listing/93520245/victorian-eapg-glass-honey-pot-condiment
clear glass one here - did you find this one Paul?
and another
both seem to have come from the States
http://www.etsy.com/listing/77431156/vintage-beehive-pressed-glass-covered
and this one is apparently a signed Imperial glass honey pot - pale blue version
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/466858
They look very similar to yours to me, with the caveat that the handle on the lid is flared on yours?
m
-
I think tmany of Imperial Glass ones are relatively new, there are loads on ebay. They are probably reissues. Have you checked under yours for a mark? The question is who made the original? Was it Imperial?
-
nope, hadn't seen the ones you mention m..............but you're right about the shape of the handle being different. However, my pot does look and feel so new that I'm going to take a chance and part with it.
But, curiously, there are features of the design that are repeated quite accurately on most of the examples that you've linked tonight - for example the bee just above and to the right of the little door seems a constant in the design - makes you wonder how many separate moulds there might have been over the years. As I mentioned, mine is devoid of marks, so no help there, and because of the nature of the glass, it's very difficult to detect genuine wear.
thanks to all again for their words, and perhaps we may hear more on this at some time. :)
-
Herein may be the problem...both IG & L.G. Wright made these although the top knot on yours has a grip. Now both IG & Wright bought old molds although Wright far more than IG & both were certainly not afraid to modify their molds so either you have an early version (EAPG period) or you have a late one that has been modified (top) by who knows who ended up with the IG & Wright molds. A laundry list of who bought Wright molds is: Fenton, Mosser, AA Importing, Castle Reproductions, L.E. Smith, Wilkenson Glass & finally Gibson Glass.
Edit: OK maybe I have a possible. L.E. Smith made the beehive honey for Martha Stewart & the top knot is a match for yours.
-
I am a very keen Leerdam collector and I did wonder if this might have been one of Hendrik Petrus Berlage's designs. I mention him because the base of the honey pot is octagonal, although I accept it is ornate and Berlage's design is very plain.
I know little about him except I believe he was also an architect and did design some geometric tableware for Leerdam.
I believe you mentioned him in your article on Leerdam Ivo.
This was one of his designs Paul:
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/exhibitions/Avant-Garde/artwork/199210
I will keep looking and see if I come up with anything else of interest or use.
01.35 added: Found this one with the same top as yours attributed to Dirk Copier:
http://www.in-stijl.com/ You will need to scroll down...
It is blue and claims to be Graniver.
-
This is Honeypot # 1941 which has been in production 1906 to the mid 1930s; height 13.5 cm, diameter 11.8 cm. The honeypot in beehive shape has been in production for a relatively long period of time; this can be concluded from the fact that versions are known in graniver and colopal, materials which were developed in 1921 and the beginning of the thirties respectively.
information from "Geperst glas uit Leerdam", Thimo te Duits.
The material in this case is Colopal, so the honey pot is from the beginning of the thirties.
-
I think this is the page you were trying to show Rosie; it's one of those crafty websites http://www.in-stijl.com/ so this may not work
-
http://www.glas-musterbuch.de/Vallerysthal-Portieux-1908.65+B6YmFja1BJRD02NSZwcm9kdWN0SUQ9MjQ1MyZwaWRfcHJvZHVjdD02NSZkZXRhaWw9.0.html
Paul, also Vallerysthal-Portieux made this design, and the colour of yours looks right to me for France too :)
My opaque white beehive is 03989 of pressglas-pavillon.
-
thanks for all the help and ideas - I'm absent for a few hours, but will come back on this after lunch :)
-
Colopal glows.
-
Your link has done the same as mine Christine...gone to the Home page. I see now that you have to select 'Verkoop', then the blue writing that says 'Glas en Kristal', then scroll down a few pieces until you come to the blue honeypot which I think is the same as yours Paul.
Ivo, do you by any chance happen to know if the yellow geometric design by Berlage was made with Colopal?
-
According to the book, the services "I" and "Ia" from 1924 were made in pressed yellow glass; it was produced 1924-1927 - so several years before Colopal came into use.
-
Thanks Ivo... great info, I like the geometric teaset and will keep an eye out for it as I love Art Deco tableware.
-
Thanks very much to Ivo for the Leerdam Colopal reference, pattern No. 1941, dating from the early 1930's. My earlier comment that the surface was smooth wasn't correct, and as you can see from some additional pix there is a rough granular texture to much of the surace area. thanks to all for the interest. :)
-
in which case it may be Graniver, from the twenties. Check it using your UV light - Graniver does not glow.
-
It does most definitely glow Ivo......... see my original pictures. :)
-
This one also signed apparently
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/SUCRIER-RUCHE-OPALINE-VERTE-SIGNE-VALLERYSTHAL-/261216555282?pt=FR_JG_C%C3%A9ramiques_Verre&hash=item3cd1b85112#ht_879wt_1271
m
-
That looks very similar to the one that Pamela mentions... I looked through sucriers on French eBay and found another two there
So it does look as though at sometime, the French had these moulds... They also mention that the glass is Moulé which sounds like the rough texture that Paul describes.
-
I think that means mold made :-\ ?
m
-
thanks m and Rosie. Does that look like an opaline colour - and is opaline used for pressed pieces? - I really don't know. Pamela has already discussed the Portieux production of these honey pots yesterday, and there is an opaque white Portieux example on the Pressglas-pavillon - also what appears to be a very similar design (on the same site) in clear, from Streit.
However, I'm now being troubled by some additional aspect of Graniver versus Colopal - which in fact Ivo had previously mentioned - but which we seemed eventually to have dismissed. I understand that Colopal is simply an opaque coloured glass, with a surface which is uniformly smooth - whereas Graniver has a variable, slightly pitted and gritty surface texture, and is known to show a mixed marbled/swirled appearance - both effects caused by partially melted distinct, small, granules of glass.
I think that Ivo was correct in his final change of mind to Graniver - based on the quite noticable textured/gritty surface - and it's possible that to date a uranium example of Graniver hasn't been recorded.
I'm led to believe that the names of these two types of glass are derived from: 'COLoured OPALascent', and 'GRANules of VERre'.
I wish to record my sincere thanks to Jay at Hogel and Shoeve in NL for helping me to better understand the difference between these 'types' of glass, and supplying information. I had overlooked to tell Jay that although Ivo had originally suggested Colopal, it was eventually thought that the surface texture made it more possibly Graniver - and there may well be as yet un-recorded colours of Graniver, including uranium.
So - it's likely then that this is Graniver, and my thanks to the experts, as always. :)
-
Yes, you are right m, it does mean moulded, I assumed it meant milled, and here is me having French lessons!! I have a long way to go!! :-[
I have always found Jay very helpful and friendly with my Leerdam questions, I am so pleased he was helpful to you Paul. :)
-
Just looking at the Vallerysthal version versus Paul's original photo, the bee on the body above the little doorway, is in a different place. So different molds.
And yes, Paul's looks more granular in appearance than the Vallerysthal green one.
Clearly a popular design whoever designed it as I've also seen a Crown Devon (pottery) one in a similar design.
m
-
French lessons eh!! - and here's me thinking this was the GMB ;) thanks Rosie for the off- Board suggestions - Jay is indeed a very helpful guy.
I'd agree that this basic design appears to have been made on several Continents, and over a long period of time - there must have been a lot of moulds doing the rounds!
-
thanks, Paul, for detecting the Streit honey on my pages, however, I did not mention that one because its bowl is more a woven '----/ 4.1 basket which makes it easy to attribute :)
-
another very recently acquired uranium example - this one from the French factory Vallerysthal (name is in relief on the bottom of the inside) - and which is a match for Pamela's 1908 catalogue picture, shown a little earlier in the thread.
Similar in many ways - most noticeable differences being the re-positioned bees, as mentioned by m, and the fact that the French factory haven't made provision for a cut-out in the lid for a spoon.
A little damage, but othewise a good example of a fairly early design, although I've no idea for how long this French pattern was made.
-
and a final pic showing the Vallerysthal glow.
-
they are so gorgeous they are almost edible Paul! fabulous :)
m
-
Mrs Green here