Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: flying free on May 20, 2013, 03:20:20 PM
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I chanced upon an elephant foot piano rest in the above book and it said it was made by John Davenport. I thought I'd remembered seeing it was made by John Derbyshire. A quick check showed it is id'd on the Molineaux Webb glass site as John Derbyshire reg'd in 1884 (same date given in Newman). I wonder if there's an error in Newman or did they both make these piano feet and register them in the same year?
Anyway, just out of curiosity I looked up Davenport glass and there was one - I couldn't see anything on the board about it
http://www.thepotteries.org/walks/longport/davenport.htm
m
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looking at your link m, it seems the Davenport dynasty ceased in 1887, so wouldn't have given them much time to beat the Debyshire registration of1884 (my copy of Newman shows c. 1874, and not the 1884 you mention).
Just for the record I've looked through all of the pressed Registrations from 1868 to 1874, but can't see any mention of Davenport. Does anyone know if Davenport ever registered any designs??
Could well be an error by Newman.
I expect one of the pressed experts will have the answer for you.
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oh yes, no glasses on and you're right, it does say 1874 in Newman.
m
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I meant to type .......1868 to 1884.....sorry. The Davenports sound a dysfunctional lot - they don't sound particularly inventive or Registration minded.
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Yes it does say that by the late 1860s the family was in dire financial straits. So it's possibly an error in Newman that should have read John DERBYSHIRE.
m
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' The Davenports sound a dysfunctional lot - they don't sound particularly inventive or Registration minded.'
however in Newman page 88 under Davenport's Patent Glass it says 'Glassware decorated with the intention to imitate ENGRAVING or ETCHING by a process patented in 1806 by John Davenport, an English potter who was also a glass-maker. The process involved covering the outer surface of glassware with a paste containing powdered glass,then removing the surplus paste so as to leave the intended design and quickly firing at low temperature to fuse the glass powder on to the surface without melting it. Such glassware is usually inscribed 'Patent' on a label made and affixed by the same method. (see powder decorated glass).
m
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I'm not aware of any Registrations though - but maybe now you'll find one of those as well. ;)
I happened to be at the V. & A. today, for something unrelated to glass, and had another look at their example of a uranium lion's paw piano insulator. Obviously, it's in a cabinet, but the combined JD and anchor can be seen on the underside, together with a double set of lozenge marks - one within the top depression and the other on the underside of the foot rim. The written data says ....'John Derbyshire Registered 1874' - and a similar foot (appears to be frosted and not uranium) is shown in Hajdamach (British Glass 1800 - 1914 - page 354), where he gives the exact Registration date of 12th May 1874.
Also just had a look in Miller's 'Popular Glass of the 19th and 20th Centuries' - Raymond Notley - and he shows an example of this design, which appears to be similar to Hajdamach's i.e. frosted............. but surprisingly although Notley waxes lyrical about insulators and mentions this one specifically, he omits any reference to Derbyshire or Registrations marks - he seems quite keen to attribute other Derbyshire pieces, without hesitation - perhaps JD did knock out some examples of this foot without Registration or trade marks. He also says of the date of his lion's foot.... '1880's'.
I've no idea for how long the 'foot' was produced.
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Paul, that's interesting as I think quite a few of the glass items in Newman's seem to have been items from the V & A
But I'm a bit confused now - and it's probably me misunderstanding how to do this reg number thingy ;D
I've just looked up on the Molineaux Webb site and it says under
John Derbyshire - shows a pic of the Mammoth foot insulator dated 1874 and reg no 282260
https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/derbyshire-brothers-designs-by-date/derbyshire-brothers-1873-1874
Am I doing this wrong then? I looked up 282260 on the Glass Notes website (see link) and that number is not on there but if it was I think it would fall around 1896?
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/regnos05.htm
And btw I've seen an example of this insulator I think and walked straight by as I never knew what it was - I'm pretty certain the one I saw was in clear glass.
edited to add - yes it's me doing it wrong - I had the wrong pages
http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/lozenge3.htm
it's here - 282260 John Derbyshire 12 May 1874
m
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Board of Trade Registration Nos. first started in 1842, and are shown in the form of letters and Nos. within a lozenge, and commenced with No. 1.
Registration numbers, in the form of a lozenge, continued without interuption until 1883 - although the format of the lozenge changed in 1867 -and as a consequence there are two separate methods required in order to interpret the details for each period i.e. 1842 - 1867 and 1868 - 1883.
Early in 1884 the lozenge was dropped in favour of providing simply the Rd. No. on its own (aside from any additional Trade Mark), and at this date the sequence of numbers re-commenced with No. 1 - and this effect of repeating a whole series of identical Nos., can be confusing.
However, seems you've solved the puzzle ;D
I believe I'm correct in saying that the uranium lion's foot in your 'molwebbhistorysite' is the example in the V. & A. - it looks like the cabinet in the gallery. I'm well aware that Board members have used museum pix for private webb sites, although my personal opinion is that in view of the help given by the V. & A. and their permission to now use images of their glass on the GMB, we should out of courtesy give acknowledgement to them when this occurs. :)
Sorry to hear that you walked past a clear lion's foot insulator - realization that you've missed something good can prey on the mind for months, and I find it very difficult to get over losing something good due to being thick - can only hope than I get less thick as time goes by. :-\
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;D No it doesn't' prey on my mind - my big loss was a Webb's cameo vase so everything else pales into insignificance by that :)
m
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my heart bleeds for you - us lesser mortals have to settle for less exotic treasures. ;) ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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of course that's nicely balanced by the pieces I did buy (and shouldn't have) that do prey on my mind :-X If the cost of them were all added together I could probably buy an amazing piece of glass lol
does that help? ;D
m
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no, not really................collectors are like any other addict - they're permanently in need of more goodies to satisfy their craving. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd probably go and blow it on collectibles, very quickly.
So you know the guilt feelings as well then - but I always get over those quicker than the sense of not having bought something - don't think I can change now, too late. ;D
I notice that yesterday I called this a lion's foot - then couldn't remember why.........but just seen that I'd got that word from Hajdamach.
I see that Raymond Notley says a hairy mammoth or yeti foot, and you've said elephant, so got to wondering what the original description says.
When I go back to TNA in a few day's time, I'll check this particular Rd. No. and see what the Register says. I'll post my pix as usual.
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that collecting craving for me, is to do with researching the piece rather than having it. However unless I have it, I don't really feel like researching it. But once it's researched and identified I slightly lose interest in it :-[
I'm starting to think I should really be working at Broadfield house or in the glass department of another museum. Then I might not feel the need to buy glass.
Is it just me?
m
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I think it's just you and me........................but could be the rest of the Board as well ;D ;D ;D
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Here's some pictures of a damaged John Derbyshire lion paw or mammoth foot uranium glass insulator clearly marked for the 12th May 1874 for reference other than the know one in the V&A
Roy
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Not sure why I hadn't added the National Archive picture long before now - but better late than never, and as a suggestion it might be an idea to correct the subject heading to read Derbyshire. At least it appears that I'd not added the Kew image here - hope it didn't end up somewhere else:)
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Thank you Paul:)
m