Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: mhgcgolfclub on April 30, 2006, 11:52:23 AM
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Hi
I bought this bowl at a Carboot today because it looked excellent quality and I have heard of American Brilliant Cut Glass, but do not know if it is early American or made by someone completey different , I do collect and sell early English pressed glass but know very little on this subject as there seems to be very little of this type of glass in the UK, any help on this piece woulfd be great, the bowl measures 9.25 inchers in diameter , height 3.25 inches and weighs 1.5kgs
thanks roy
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/am1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/am2.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/am3.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/am4.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/am5.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/am6.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/am7.jpg
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Hi Roy
The brilliance and pattern style certainly looks right for ABP / APC.
I see no grey (unpolished) cutting which would indicate more recent manufacture but as to actual age and whether it is from America or not, I cannot help.
This style of glass went out of fashion very suddenly in the early part of the time of WWI. Reproduction to the same standard would be very very costly.
I am given to understand that identifying precise makers, in the absence of marks, is often extremely difficult and sometimes impossible as the cutters all copied each others patterns and the range of motifs is, in any case, limted.
This article American Brilliant Period Cut Glass, 1876 – 1917 by John, C. Roesel at http://www.cutglass.org/articles/art11.htm will explain a lot more.
Terry, Leni and others will hopefully be able to help more.
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Peter, your answer is exactly what I would have said. It certainly appears to be ABC glass. The only thing I would have added is this. Turn the piece in a strong light so the light goes over the interior, they may be a mark, usually acid stamped and this is one way to see it. Another area to check is the outside of the rim. If you don't find one, do not be surprised. Many were not signed. Terry
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Hi
Thanks for the replys so far , it seems that it may well be early american cut glass and if it is it would seem to be a great find
regards roy
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You will need to use a magnifying glass but you really must look over this piece VERY CAREFULLY for a signature/marking of some kind. It looks like ABC glass and a beauty at that! I will check my books to find a pattern if there is a name for it.....look it over very well and you might hit upon something.
Theresa
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Hi
I will have another look very closely for an mark, I know some marks on glass can be very difficult to find, I will wait for it to stop raining and try the strong sunshine if we ever get some
roy
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Roy,
If you could send me via email pics I will look thru the books I have....Im wondering if this a Tec pattern which is possible too. EAPG sometimes look as good as cut glass. Does it feel very sharp to the touch? all the pts. on the outside? Also take or send a pic. of the piece sitting on a white sheet of paper or solid color of the bottom :-) I will do my best to research it. I like to research.
Theresa
rricktheresa@aol.com Make sure in the title for email you put it's me Roy so I don't think spam
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Hi
Thanks for the help , I have sent a number of new pics and added these 2
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/ab12.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/mhgcgolfclub/ab1.jpg
roy
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signed or not - it's breathtaking Roy!
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Totally agree Pam!
Roy can you send me pic. 4 and the last one I think 7? of your original pics? got some help for you but need those to i.d
Theresa
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I have had a couple of other opinions about my bowl one is that it could be J Hoare 1890/95 and another is that its is quote
( Your bowl definitely has typical American Brilliant Period characteristics. Unfortunately it is on of those patterns that looks like so many others and I can't easily steer toward one particular pattern or company. If I had to guess I would say it may have been one of those items that was sold in major jewelry stores and cut buy a major company for them. It is probably a real good bowl in person and is what could be considered definitely better than average.)
also does anybody know how much of this glass came over to the Uk or are the pieces that are to be found just very few and far between
roy
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Roy - American Brilliant period cut glass was exported to Europe. Doing some research recently I came across an article by the American consul in Stuttgart Germany in, as I recall, the early 1900s stating that American cut glass supplied to retailers there sold out quickly and requests for more were not being responded to expeditiously.
I'm in the US in California and recently bought a pair of Hawkes "Teutonic" vases on eBay from a seller in Yardley Hastings, UK. Interestingly, neither is signed, unusual as Hawkes was good about signing their glass and I know exactly where a vase would be signed by them. Another collector told me that either the signature had been polished off or that it had been exported through Canada to Europe and that the signature was requested to be omitted. There was also a couple of decades early in the American Brilliant period before it "took off" and was preferable to European cut glass during which retailers did want to state their glass was American made, here and abroad. It would make sense in that scenario also to request a signature mark be omitted.
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Karen thanks for that
I had also been told that Brilliant cut glass was exported , and that possible retailers may have asked for the glass not to be signed, one reason why so few pieces that I have collected are not signed, I do have a very nice bowl signed Hawkes as well as 2 Canadian pieces signed.
The bowl on this post which started me collecting has since been identified thanks to Warren Biden as being made by the Buffalo Cut Glass Co , Niagra pattern
Karen I would be interested in seeing a picture of the vases you bought as I only live about an hour away from Hastings, although I only buy pieces from fairs as I do enjoy the hunt for pieces at fairs
Roy
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I need to get the Buffalo catalog, amongst many others :)
The quickest way to show you the Hawkes Teutonic vases is to post a link to the completed listing From what I heard from several other collectors, a pair of small vases in this pattern was a special find, even with the crunched tooth to the one. The other is perfect. The seller's pictures were adequate to identify the pattern. Warren Biden has a Teutonic candlestick posted on his web site for sale. I was prompted to search eBay UK just from the ABP glass I've seen you and others find in Europe and I still search eBay UK. Via Royal Mail it only took five days to get to me and the seller did a great job with packing of the vases.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260294212445
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Thanks for the link, a nice pair of small vases, a little bit similar to this one my wife bought in a charity shop a few months ago. To be honest I thought it may be more likely to be Bohemian rather than ABP, not sure what you may think. Excuse the poor quality pictures which I have just taken
thanks Roy
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The zipper cutting (usually notching) on the stem is unusual for ABP cut glass but one reason this glass addicts so many collectors for a life time is that there is ALWAYS something new to discover or learn about, and always something popping up that has not been seen before. The fans above the larger hobstars are also a bit unusual.
I don't see anything about your sweet pea vase that favors Bohemian origin. I'd look to Meriden first because of the flashed hobstars. Were you wondering if it was something like Yasemin cut glass? They imitate ABP cut glass and I have a quite respectable quality large jug signed Yasemin I bought impulsively from bad pictures. It was too interesting to return. I have shown the hobstar on the bottom of it to some advanced collectors of ABP - they thought it was an American cut hobstar. Yasemin blanks are large and instead of a defined pattern adapted to the shape of a blank, Yasemin simply uses motifs without organization until blank space is filled up. Some Val St Lambert cut patterns around 1900 are similar to those used by American cut glass companies.
It's probably another thread in itself but I wonder if, after American cut glass became preferred world-wide, there were attempts to copy it in Europe. Looking through book and newspaper archives I have run across the term "brilliant cut" glass in England. Was such glass made in Europe during the American brilliant period?
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Roy, please see your email for a picture of a compote/sweet pea vase that I think matches yours.
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KarenR thank you very much
Some more pictures of the sweet pea vase, it looks spot on to me , my wife actually bought this for about £1.50 from a charity shop about 6 months ago, I was not that impressed at the time as I did not think it was ABP plus it does have one tooth missing, I think if I had seen it in the shop I may have left it behind,
Ps I have one other bowl for you to look at which I will start a new post
Many thanks Roy
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Karen emailed the ad to me, too, and I agree it looks like a match. Too bad it doesn't say who made it!
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The piece was almost certainly cut by Meriden, a class cutting subsidiary of International Silver Company. I suspect it is Meriden's Plymouth pattern but there are not clear examples in catalog reprints or pictured glass to be sure. Adding a bit more weight is that the research notes state Plymouth was introduced in 1905, the year of the ad.
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With permission from the LABAC group's originator, Rob Smith, here is the advertisement showing Roy's sweet pea vase/compote, shown on page INT-10 of LABAC's Cut Glass Advertisements, book 2. In this case only a maker and country of origin can be ascertained, but without this one advertisement that important information would not be known. I've been a LABAC member about a year-and-a-half and I've lost track of the number of times this has happened.
About LABAC: LABAC is an informal nonprofit research group that pools resources to find and acquire significant Brilliant Period cut glass catalogs, booklets, photographs, scrapbooks, advertising and other materials. LABAC distributes copies of developed and found materials to members, for their personal study and research use. There are presently about nine dozen participants, and everyone is invited to join in this important research effort. Google "cut glass about LABAC" to learn more.
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I know almost nothing about "brilliant cut" glass and it's only because I happened to be browsing various messages that I don't usually look at in much detail that I noticed the comment and question:
Looking through book and newspaper archives I have run across the term "brilliant cut" glass in England. Was such glass made in Europe during the American brilliant period?
Such glass was certainly made in Englnd in that period and Charles Hajdamach included a chapter on the subject in British Glass 1800-1914. He said, however, that the English versions of "brillaint cut" could not be mistaken for the American. The patterns were apparently different with the English preferring less-deep cuts and using hobnails and strawberry diamonds rather than pinwheels and curved mitres. And even though I know nothing much about it, I am aware that in Continental Europe, the "brilliant cut" patterns were often much more like those of the American style, and that's possiby why there is so much pinwheel pattern glass from modern Continental European sources.