Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Artifarti on June 20, 2013, 04:30:33 AM
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Hi... I hope someone can help with this chap. I normally collect Large murano animals, with the odd chunky or contempary beast for good measure... but I found this rather stunning black bird / crow about two years ago at a boot fair, and do not know what he is (apart from the fact that he's a bird) The glass is stunning, with almost each 'feather' worked throughout his body, he appears black or silvered , depending on the light, he has no signature, labels or anything.... he's 13cm tall and 21cm long...and really really would love to know what or who he is, partly because Im nosey, partly because I cannot stand a mystery.... but mostly because I love him and would like to credit him to his artist !!! Hope you can help, I would love any ideas :-) thanks in anticipation !
kindest regards
Sue
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Can we have a base shot please. We always need base shots
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:-) okidoki....
I just assumed you wouldn't be interested, as he has no marks or signature.... although in his case, he is rather nicely finished off, with a very tidy bottom ....
Thank you
Sue
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With those internal "feathers" I would suspect either V Nason [Murano] (most likely) or perhaps Marcolin/Ronneby (but I don't remember seeing one that was not clearly engraved). The beak looks very like a Nason bird I found. So I am nearing certainty. I assume it is meant to be a raven/crow.
Ross
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Thank you .... now youv'e started me off on a journey around the internet ( and I had things to do this afternoon ! ) Ive got a couple of Nasons .... hmm, and Ive seen couple out here, that have the internal 'feathery things', but they are more like ...'cabley things' and the look of the ends of the glass, where theyve been clipped off seem well... harsher if that makes sense, this bird, all his ends are really soft... also, murano critters .. always seem to have a certain 'eye', always the same... I have 9 horses (1's a fake and two have been beheaded ( I have the head ends)) , a couple of elephants, 2 ducks, a parrot and a cockeral.... and they all have the same eye. The crow has a bulbous , stuck on afterwards eye, not a muranoeee eye.... does any of this make sense , or am I a rambling fool :-/ Had a look at some Marcolin Ronneby Konstglas though, and I think you are absolutely correct!!!....I found a fish with 'feathers' the glass and bubbles seem identical, and a small duck with very similar 'feathers' in a different colour... apparently (I read this bit ) not all thier pieces where signed. Shame tho, Im a pencil artist, I have hundreds of pieces out there in the big wide world... I'd hate any one of them to not have a signature, it would feel like I let them out without thier collars on ... to get lost! somehow its sad that so many beautiful glass pieces can never be attributed to an individual, for the sakes of two minutes with an engraving tool ! . Never mind, he's not for sale.... thank you sooo much for your help and advice.... now Ive had a look at some other pieces, and now (thanks to you) I know what to look for... I think Mr.Crow/raven could do with some brothers and sisters from the same factory... but I bet I cant find another at a car boot for £3 .... :-)
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Is the base highly polished? If not it's possible maybe it might have been made by Cello - which I think are either Chinese or Indian made glass. I'm not sure.
There is a thread here on those type of birds although the original poster put his pictures on an external hosting site and they have now been removed... again. So they aren't there to view any more.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,43525.msg242803.html#msg242803
m
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Thank you! ... I have had a read through that thread.... and looked for some cello, but nothing I can find looks close (lots of music articles tho!) my boy has a VERY nicely polished bottom ! he also has a great weight for his size, and a real quality feel.... Ive accidently aqquired a few fakes along the way, and you know the minute you hold them, that they are 'not right' !!I was saying , that I had found a marcolin ronneby fish, that had the identicle 'feathering' in the glass, and was the exact same colouring.... So I think Im happy that he's an unsigned (sadly) marcolin. I sell other bits of glass .....and seem to be good at finding it, but this particular bird, Im really fond of, so his value is of no interest, he's staying at home with me... however ...Im now really interested to find other pieces with the same pedigree !!!!
thanks again :-)
Sue
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I don't mean to be rude, but is that really a polished base/bottom? It looks flat and unpolished on my screen, with a matte finish?
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I suppose this one is not quite the same but the shape is - I believe these are Chinese.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEAUTIFUL-BLACK-AND-WHITE-STRIPED-GLASS-BIRD-/271180639468?nma=true&si=e447Of30ZdzIJI0EiiWjsE6X0jE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I also don't think the base of your bird is highly polished and shiny. If it were it would be see-through. But I could be wrong, it might just be the light of your photo reflecting :)
m
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Ah ha ! ....now it would seem that he has a chinese accent, because that bird does look VERY similar, ( and actually I really like it) the beak has a similar shape as well !this morning I was convinced that he ate a lot of pickled herring, now it would appear, its chow mein for his tea, with poppadoms !!! The bottom is polished.... but I took those photos in the dark... so my flash went berserk... do the chinese/indian peeps make things with that stunning feathering tho ? .... exciting and complicated this glass thing isn't it? Ive never really thought about it until I went to sell a few bits off (I know my murano horses, and thats about it ) just had a look around the house.. and a weird little bird that was stuck in a corner, and cost 20p is a signed wedgewood.... Im having such fun !!! ...
Thanks for the link, I'll have another go at the birds bottom , without flash... I would still love to know if the 'feathers' are common to asian pieces?...
kindest regards
Sue
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I have a Ronneby one with the same internal pattern, but it's fully marked. I believe the Chinese made copies, and as this isn't marked it's probably one of the copies.
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yes - Rosie said here for example
'Some of you may remember I had a blue bird with this quilted effect inside, and I thought it might be Marcolin, but now I am not certain......the base was quite well polished, but not as well as my signed Marcolin and FM Konstglas pieces.
I have sold it now, but these are pictures I have of it, and I have seen others listed on eBay, very similar, that were sold as Cello.
I hope this helps a little.'
her duck is here - the effect is very similar if not the same
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,43525.msg243085.html#msg243085
I have seen a largish number of pieces with this feather effect but in grey not black. Perhaps black was a later offering. Or perhaps I am wrong and it's not Cello :)
m
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http://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t8931-glass-bird-with-two-labels
this is another similar one although the base on this one definitely hasn't been polished.
m
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The photo that made me think it is a Nason piece is https://fossilfly.cybrhost.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=2042 which shows the beak structure to be very similar to your bird. Nason labels are very likely to be lost over time.
Ross
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The feather and bubble technique is called Sfumato.... I don't think this is a Cello piece, the quality looks too good. I know that many of the FM Konstglas pieces have a rounded triangular label and no engraving to the base, but I tend to agree with Ross here, that this is a V.Nason piece. The eye and beak show a craftsmanship that I have yet to see on Chinese birds and TK Maxx pieces, and the striped bird is definitely not the quality of yours Sue, so for the moment, until you see another, it is either Murano (V.Nason), or Swedish, (FM Konstglas).
I would have bought it.... it looks a lovely piece. If I see another, I will mention it here so you have a comparison.
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Rosie that's good to have that confirmed :)
OP is it possible to please have a clear good picture of the polished base?
thanks :)
Here is are some good close up pics of a labelled v nason bird although not a blackbird.
http://www.20thcenturyglass.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_264&products_id=5268&zenid=8ebf46d9871fde814d2bd90270b12dae
and there are other V Nason pieces here, they all tend to have clear casing though so not quite the same as yours
but still helpful to see and to compare the technique
http://www.fossilfly.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=1498
m
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Thank you , yet again everybody... my poor bird, he's gone from TK max, back to Italy, via Sweden... his wings must be tired :-))))
This may help.... I've taken photos of his bottom again, this time in daylight.... I'm hoping that this will help, but either way , Im learning lots, :-)) and loving it ....
thanks to all
Sue
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thanks for the extra pics - they really need to be 600x400 to blow up to be able to be viewed properly though.
That still doesn't look like a highly polished shiny completely see through base to me - sorry.
It may just be the way I'm viewing it but whilst it doesn't look matt as in the one I linked to, it looks as though it has had a quick polish but not completely.
Perhaps I'm wrong or perhaps V Nason didn't polish the base of their pieces completely maybe?
I'd also love to see a large close up of the sfumato technique on his feathers if you have time :)
m
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Okidoki.... does this help.... :-) Unfortunately I use a really high definition camera (I'm an artist, and I use my camera for work, so I need hideously large files and telephoto lens's) so its extremely difficult to get file sizes down, and keep perspective ... the smallest I can get them down to is 500.... or the files are too big to upload :-(
This is the largest I can get the images , with this camera...
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Thanks for trying again.
It's probably me, but I cannot see that the base is highly polished. In my opinion it isn't.
I'm also curious about the feathers. I can't tell from your pictures whether or not they are the same as the V nason ones, but in fairness, the other pics I've linked to (apart from the excellent 20th century glass site pics) aren't that clear on close ups of the feathers bubbled effect either so it's hard to compare.
I'm just adding another thread on fossilfly here - there are more pictures including a lovely parrot but that one has a ground but unpolished base. Then underneath that shot of the parrot ground base Ingela has posted another piece with a base shot showing a Marcolin piece. You can see what a highly polished base would look like in that picture. Does yours look as shiny and completely see through as this one?
http://www.fossilfly.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=222&highlight=marcolin&page=2
I've only had one Nason animal and lots of vases/boxes and all have been highly polished hence my query.
m
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Hi again .... right , I've just had a look at the link you sent me, and the first bird has an AWFUL bottom, no my boy is not like that !!!! He is polished, and you can see straight through him to his glass 'innards'... BUT Im going to say, in his defense, his innards are very close to the surface on him, he is completely enclosed in clear glass, a lot of the pictures I am seeing of various 'feathered' or 'cabled' items,the innards, sit deep inside the clear glass.... my boys innards are just below the clear glass shell.... and his bottom looks fairly dark, because he has so much black and grey innards ... maybe that's why he doesn't look polished in the photos :-( ...AND he FEELS polished, not matt...
I think he's lovely, and that's all that really matters at the end of the day... If I see another like him, I would purchase it... In Italy or TKmax !!! :-) So ... to change the subject WHO is this elephant...another unsigned piece....16cm tall ...and he has a very shiny bottom !!! ... any ideas? :-)))
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Hi is it possible to post your elephant in a separate thread please otherwise it becomes difficult for the mods to separate the identification
once that has happened?
And yes you are right. It doesn't matter where something was made - buying something because you love it regardless of provenance is the best way I find :)
m
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:-) yes that's fine... I have two elephants and a duck that have no name sor pedigree .... is there a limit to the number of pieces I can ask after.... ?? :-)
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Hi :) no, but I think the request is that one only posts 3 per day to avoid all others disappearing off the first page too quickly. Please ask away with each one on a separate thread :)
I've been looking at labelled versions or Ronneby and Nason birds to try and find a match for you but there are differences between your bird and the ones I've found:
- The bases of the ones I've found are highly polished and look different to yours and
- they all have the sfumato effect going around a 'core ' if you like, so you can see on the base pics an outer circle of sfumato effect around the internal circle, whereas the blackbird doesn't look the same and
- they all seem to have a thick clear cased layer around the piece whereas he doesn't.
This is a labelled Nason piece and the photos are good and demonstrate what I'm trying to describe (the base photo does it well).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MURANO-Controlled-Bubble-BLUE-GLASS-DUCK-V-Nason-Co-Italy-/161050986887?pt=UK_Art_Glass&hash=item257f630987
m
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Yes... that's what I am seeing, he is encased in lovely clear glass, but there's not much depth to it ... strange isn't it. To be perfectly honest , I have a piece (not an animal) that has the 'core' cabling'.... and its not my favourite thing, up close its clever, but across a room, it looks like a shapeless blob, because you only see the inner coloured 'cable' !! I still don't think he's Italian, because the eye is different to every Italian piece I either own, or have ever seen.... at the same time, I don't think he's a 'cheapie' copy, because he has 'quality'.... hard to define, but always there in a good piece of glass, weight, texture, workmanship, clarity and light in the glass.... I was saying in an earlier post, that I do not understand why a craftsman, no matter what his medium, wouldn't or doesn't put his signature, or mark on a piece... its such a shame ! To make matter worse ( for me personally ) I HATE paper labels... if anything comes into my house, chances are the first thing I will do is scratch the labels off .... mind you I don't wear designer clothes with labels all over them either !! Still, he's a beautiful thing, and I shall enjoy him as he is... unknown ! :-) thank you so much for all your help, and time, and effort.... Ive learned lots in the process, and its been really interesting... I shall try not to inundate the forum, I have another two or three mysteries (where other people have scratched labels off ! ) I always like to answer anyone that has made an effort though ... maybe I'll look for help on just one item per week :-) Kindest regards
Sue
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It might be worth asking this seller for lore pictures of their bird, as it looks quite similar to yours, but the details are difficult to make out.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-GLASS-BIRD-/151068960800
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Hiya .... I cannot believe that you found this bird ... it IS identical :-) I shall get in touch with the seller, and see if he has any marks or labels that might help.... WOW ! I've never seen one like him in a couple of years, and you find an almost perfect match in under a week.... I am very impressed and practically speechless ! :-) thank you so much. I shall let you know what mr. bird seller has to say, if he replies.
take care, kindest regards
Sue
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Hi Sue, I know we are over a year on, but did you ever contact the seller of the black bird and find out if it had any makers name?
I would be very interested to know.
Rosie. :)