Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: agincourt17 on June 23, 2013, 09:31:14 PM
-
Clear glass vase embossed Reg’d 809140. 7¼ inches high. Chrome plated band to top rim marked CELTIC | MADE IN ENGLAND.
(Permission for the re-use of this image on GMB granted by vintage-rubylulu).
Not listed at http://www.great-glass.co.uk/glass%20notes/regnos10.htm
Is it in the Blue Book? (The registration date should be in January or February 1936). If so, can some kind GMB member let me have the precise registration details, please?
Fred.
-
Hi Fred, it's not in the Blue Book either. :(
-
Thank you, Anne.
Will post on the GMB RD look-up.
-
Similar (but not the same: Rd. 817496) to the one shown in Patricia's book, The Curious History of the Bulb Vase, p.273. This one was registered on 12 Jan 1937 by Jules Lang, so perhaps that's a link worth following.
-
Would agree with David - a similar look with that slightly waisted appearance. David is referring to a flower vase which is mistaken, occasionally, for a bulb vase.
I will check the TNA records for Fred's vase and hope to provide full details some time later next week after I've been to Kew. Quite probably Fred's Rd. No. is missing for the usual reason (CLASS 4)
-
CLASS 4 - usual reason for not being on the list :)
Kew references are ................ Representation BT 52/1976 Register............ BT 53/71 (I've bigger pix of the Register page if this one isn't legible).
Regret I can't comment about the chrome band............there's nothing in the Registers to suggest this was a standard embellishment, and it doesn't seem to appear on the example showing in the Representations photograph.
this item can now be removed from the Look Up Requests. :)
-
Thank you, Paul, as always. I will ask the mods to delete the entry in the GMB RD look-up.
Details transcribed as follows:
Class 4; No. 809140; registered 18 January 1936; copyright extensions in 1941 and 1946, finally expiring in 1951. Registrant Jack L. Barnett Limited, 18, Bassinghall Street, Boar Lane, Leeds 1 (presumably the company’s registered office in the heart of Leeds).
From what I can gather, Jack L. Barnett was a Leeds-based business importing and distributing housewares into the UK retail market, and the product range was a mixture of well-known brand names and products purchased from another company and sold under the business’s own brand name/s.
The business was still operating from an industrial estate in the Leeds area in 2005, when it was sold a management buyout, and the company trading name changed to BHL
So, the vase would have been manufactured by a subcontractor, presumably to Barnett’s design specification – hence the registration in his name.
I’ve drawn a blank so far with the CELTIC electroplated rim band.
Does anyone know who the manufacturer of this Barnett-registered was? – Bagley of Knottingley was less than 20 miles away from the Barnett company office in Leeds, after all.
Does anyone know more about the Jack L. Barnett business, particularly any own-brand glassware, and any brand name/s it might have been marketed under?
Fred.
-
I also have this vase but without the chrome rim.
It appears in adverts in the Pottery Gazette during 1949, which I've attached a copy of, also without chrome rim. ;)
The "Barnook Regd Glassware" appears on all the Jack L. Barnett adverts I have seen from 1930's through 50's; which includes preserving jars, plates, bowls, tumblers and bottles
-
Thank you, Lindsey.
Fred.
-
Ahhh that's interesting, thanks Lindsey. I found an entry for Jack L Barnett in Bloomberg which says they are importers and distributors, not manufacturers: (they still exist it seems?) https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=561022 (https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=561022)
Jack L Barnett, headquartered in Leeds, operates in the logistics sector of industry, delivering glassware products to retailers in all areas of the United Kingdom. The company is the primary distributor for JG Durand, the world’s largest glassware manufacturer. Other companies with which Jack L Barnett operate include Luninarc (sic), Arcoroc, Arcuisine, Crystal D’Arques and Arcopal.
-
I saw that earlier and have been looking at the companies house records. There's a Jack L Barnett Ltd (09010717), which is a dormant company, but the registered office address is in Worcester, "Arc Terrace Road, Pershore, WR10 2DJ". It was incorporated 25/04/2014.
Arc International Tableware UK Ltd (01567500) used to trade as Jack L. Barnett Ltd from 15 Jul 1982 - 20 May 2004 and
Forthope Ltd from 11 Jun 1981 - 15 Jul 1982. They describe their nature of business as 46440 - Wholesale of china and glassware and cleaning materials. Their registered office address is the same as the Jack L Barnett Ltd mentioned in the first paragraph, and they have the same company director.
According to Kompass they are "Glass & dinner wear distributors" and have an office in Leeds.
Might be worth dropping them a line and asking if they're the same as the Jack L Barnett from the 40's-50's. ;)
-
A bit more digging revealed the information that Jack L Barnett was the subject of a management buy out by the Managing Director and 2 other people in July 2000 and the new business was named Brands Home & Leisure (BHL), which in turn was taken over by Thermos in 2017 (for whom BHL had been the UK distributor for 16 years.)
Meanwhile the original Jack L Barnett Ltd company had its name changed on 20/05/04 to ARC INTERNATIONAL TABLEWARE UK LIMITED under the signature of Philippe Durand. They are still in business.
-
I just read that on the other thread about the celery vase! ;D
Just to throw the cat among the pigeons, so to speak, Jack L Barnett is listed in the 1957 & 1958 pottery gazette directories under wholesale merchants, not importers.
-
That's interesting; we do have evidence that they marketed British glassware made by Bagley for example, as we have seen boxed examples of those. I wonder when they started acting as an agent / importer for the Durand group?
-
Coming back to this topic again I noticed something I'd missed previously: in Paul's image of the register from the Archives the card states 809140 - 41, so I'm thinking there were two registrations 809140 and 809141 on the same card and wondering what the other one related to?
The card says the copyright for 809140 was extended 2nd Jan 1941 for 5 years, and again on 10th Jan 1946 for a further 5 years, and finally expired on 18th Jan 1951, but in between those lines it also says No. 809141 copyright expired 18th Jan 1941, so whatever 809141 was it was only registered for the initial 5 years, as against 809140's registration for 15 years.
-
Sometimes, if brain is working properly, I view a page or two either side of the particular Representations No. that I'm supposed to be researching - it's a worthwhile habit that has saved my bacon on more than one occasion. Sometimes though, I don't.
Unfortunately, 2013 is too far back to remember whether or not I looked at adjacent Nos. on that particular visit, so clueless now as to what 809141 may have shown.
A not uncommon explanation for situations where two or more consecutive Rd. Nos. exist - from the same manufacturer - appears to be that a basic design shape is intended to be made with optional decorative features. Whether the factory is hedging bets as to what currently has greater public appeal, might be one reason, another might be simply that they have more than one good idea for decoration, so why waste it.
This might have been the reason here, but equally it could have been something else.
Am I right in thinking Lindsey mentioned something about visiting Kew around this time of year?
-
Celtic Plate (which was chrome not silver plate) was the trade name used by E J Leek Ltd of Birmigham. I imagine that in the same way that Abrahams of Birmingham were associated with Davidson's glass there were other companies doign the same thing with other manufacturers.
A photo of one of there adverts is attached. There is little known about them after 1937.
1929 Listed Exhibitor. Manufacturers of E.P.N.S. Cake Baskets, Sweet Dishes, Entrees, Vases, Tea-sets, Butters, Biscuits, Salads, Trays, Honeys, Tankards, Oak Biscuits, and Whiskey Barrels; Camel, Worcester and Royal Chinese Dragon Patterns in China Mounted Ranges. (Stand Nos.J.36 and J.61) [1]
1937 Listed Exhibitor - British Industries Fair. Manufacturers of Modern Electric Table and Standard Lamps of outstanding design. Specialists in all quantity production work in Chromium Plate or Silver Plated Articles. Exclusive designs at quantity production prices. (Stand No. Cb720) [2]
-
Kew image of the original factory photo now attached showing the Jack L. Barnett Ltd. (Leeds) Reg. 809141 which, together with the glass vase under Reg. 809140, were both Registered as CLASS 4 on 18th January 1936. Regret I've not a clue as to the intended purpose of 809141 - another vase perhaps? Neither the picture or the Register page comment as to purpose, but I suppose this one too is a bit 'vasish' in looks. Seems odd that the prior consecutive No. should be photographed in glass, but it's brother looks to be in some sort of non-glass substance.
In 2013, when I first looked at TNA images for both these items, I may have decided to ignore 809141 as it appeared not to be glass - with hindsight I should perhaps have been more cautious and should have remembered that photos of some factory prototypes of glass items were submitted to the Board of Trade in materials other than glass.
Suppositions/guesses/theories etc., as to what 809141 might be, on a postcard please c/o Anne (Mod.), with entries to arrive ……………………... any time you like. ;)