Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Antwerp1954 on August 28, 2013, 10:55:16 AM
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Hi
i've just acquired what looks like a Georgian glass épergne. It's only 15cm tall so would hardly be impressive in the middle of a table. However it has Georgian glass features
- folded foot and rim
- domed foot
- it's heavy and resonates when tapped
- the glass has bubble s and inclusions
- striated
- wear to base
- wheel engraved
I've tried to find out about GLASS épergnes in the Georgian period but to no avail. Is it an épergne?
Any ides?
Thanks
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And another image
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A picture of the whole thing to give an idea of scale would be good. The fern motif is Victorian though; pteridomania began in the 1830s and really got going in the 1850s
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Picture as requested
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hello and welcome to the GMB - good to have another collector of Georgian glass :)
Don't think I'd agree that this looks like a typical Georgian epergne. Although we've become accustomed to thinking of epergnes as C19 table centre-pieces for holding flowers, their original use in the U.K., in the C18, was for holding various dry sweetmeats.
The pix I've seen show them, as you'd expect, being heavily cut, and even adorned with drops - with the glass being much thicker. As Lustrousstone has said, your wheel engraving of ferns is so typical of Victoriana - perhaps somewhere in the mid C19. Regret I can see only one of your criteria' as being genuinely valid for Georgian glass - the others are features that might be found on glass from almost any period - and this is the folded foot. The folded foot is most certainly from the first half of the C18, but I have my doubts that Georgian epergnes would have been given this feature, which was in essence an attempt (quite successfully) to strengthen the extremities of more thinly blown items such as drinking glasses, milk bowls, loving cups etc. (also applied to some very wide rims)
I suggest this epergne was made with flowers in mind, and would suggest that the folded foot is simply to strengthen the foot rim.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is much in the literature on Geogian epergnes - just the odd few paragraphs scattered around.
However, a nice piece of glass which has survived in one (or should that be two :)) piece intact for a long time - a good find.
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So what conclusion regarding date?
If for flowers then why the bowl?
My view is 1830.
Folded foot revival in the 1820s
Fern engraving 1830+
Quality of glass with bubbles and inclusions pre-1830
Pontil not polished or ground despite there being wheel engraving (i.e. facilities for grinding to hand) indicates earlier than later
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Hi ,
Is the foot fold on this folded up and over or down and under ,many later continental European 19thc pieces and 20th c pieces in the Georgian style have a foot that has an up and over fold,the metal especially the foot looks to be a bit bright and clear for early 19th but that may just be the photography.
Cheers ,
Peter.
oops forgot to say welcome to the forum and good to have another member interested in older glass
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Thanks for the welcome.
The foot is folded under.
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If for flowers then why the bowl?
For floating flower heads or fruit or sweetmeats
Quality of glass with bubbles and inclusions pre-1830
I think those are criteria that can be applied for very many years after that
Pontil not polished or ground despite there being wheel engraving
It's obviously not a high-class item and finishing the pontil mark would not have been the engraver's job, so why add the cost of another worker to the item when it's not necessary. These were piece workers don't forget
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Hi ,
Also a polished pontil under a domed foot is unnecessary there being no possibility of contact with the table .
Cheers ,
Peter.
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Ok - so let's put a date on it!
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It accords with illusrations in Silber & Fleming catalogues where other very similar single trumpet centre-pieces are shown, and are described Crystal glass flower stands. These catalogues were printed originally some time in the 1880's, and my opinion is that your piece dates somewhere from 1860 - 1880 (or a tad later).
quote ................."For floating flower heads or fruit or sweetmeats".................I'm fairly certain not for anything other than flowers. In a similar way to C20 float bowls, these bowls would have been for smaller flower arrangements.
This looks very dissimilar to Georgian/Regency glass (particularly a Georgian sweetmeat epergne), and bearing in mind the similarity to much of the Silber & Fleming material (much of which was imported from Europe), your piece may well not be of U.K. origin - thus accounting for features giving rise to problems with dating.
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IMHO this epergne is British (it might even be Scottish, as this sort of engraving is often found up there) and c1850 onwards but probably not as "new" as Paul suggests
"For floating flower heads or fruit or sweetmeats".................I'm fairly certain not for anything other than flowers.
The lady of the house probably put whatever she fancied in it
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Many thanks for your wisdom, knowledge and thoughts. I've not run out of questions though!
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I never consider Christine's opinions to be humble - she's too knowledgable. :) You may be correct, but equally we will almost certainly never know. :)
Wot - more questions!!