Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: lyndhurst44 on September 11, 2013, 09:07:53 PM
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Hi,
I recently purchased this early uranium glass vase that I was convinced was the same as another I had purchased and sold some years ago. On checking I have found that they were similar but definitely not identical. The first vase had a lozenge and Sowerby bird mark. I think it dated 1877 but I am not sure. This vase has no mark.
I hope someone in grassland can help identify it for me please. It measures 21 cms tall and weighs 400 gms.
Thanks,
Bryn
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Hi
I have had a number of these but a few years ago . I cannot remember for sure the maker. John Derbyshire made similar vases but most were marked. For some reason I am thinking Burtles and Tate but not 100% sure.
I will try and do some more research.
Roy
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Thanks for your help Roy. Much appreciated. Just for comparison I will add a photo of the vase I thought I had found later this afternoon. Have to get up the golf course early today .
Bryn
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This is the vase design I thought I had acquired. This had the Sowerby mark and lozenge.
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Hi
Now that one looks very much like John Derbyshire to me than Sowerby.
Roy
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Can't help with either of Bryn's goblet vases, unfortunately, despite going through a lot of pix, but thought this thread might be suitable place to add some closely related items from other factories, which might be of interest. Not intended as a definitive resume, but just some thoughts and details that come mostly from Kew, and which are pieces most closely resembling the vases here - however, if considered out of place, feel free to move to wherever. :)
Pix 1 and 2 are the well known J.J. & T. Derbyshire Rd. 242570 (21.06.1870) shown in Manley (also on Neil's site where you can see images of all three panels). Quite an irony that Manley speaks of acquiring his from the Snowdonia area of N. Wales, which coincidentally is where I found this one. He also says that during the 1950's he saw these not uncommonly in that part of Wales - although doubtless they're not so now. This one is mine (at least for a while) so no need to credit anyone else for the pic.
Pic 3 is the same Derbyshire brothers - Rd. 242570 (21.06.1870), and is stated in the Archives to be an 'ornamental design for breakfast set' - so presumably this ornamentation appears on other items for the table. Sorry the pic is a bit bent.
Pic 4 - again J.J. & T. Derbyshire Rd. 251012 (15.03.1871) which appears as another example stating 'ornamental design' - so whether this refers to the shape and moulded pattern, or just the pattern, I don't know.
Pic 5 - Registered by Ker Webb - No. 263362 (13.06.1872) - and is the well know 'pair' of ornamental goblet vases depicting male and female busts. It's worth looking at Neil's site to see these in the flesh and to read his comments regarding possible attribution of the sitters.
Pic 6 - back to J.J. & T. Derbyshire with Rd. 267727 (06.11.1872) - described as a 'Roman Vase' (?) and appears in the Board of Trade image without any decoration, so possibly the most plain of this type of object.
There are other goblet vases incorporating hands, fish etc., but I've avoided those and stuck to the simple pedestal form which are closest to the two posted here.
Believe Ed. Moore also produced similar vases - Thompson attributes some green examples in her book and comments that these are shown in the Moore factory pattern book, and says that they date to c. 1880, although unfortunately it appears that Ed. Moore didn't register any designs between 1868 and 1886 - so outside the lozenge period, and means at present I don't have any pix. Am sure however that someone here must have one of these vases. I don't have an example to show.
If someone can let me have the Rd. Nos. for the Sowerby examples which are mentioned earlier in this thread, I'll re-check the Kew pix and see if I can find anything.
Hope I have above details correct - but if there are errors or whatever, please feel free to comment and put matters right - or anything else anyone may wish to add. :)
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and the remaining two pix..
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Here are a few pics of RD 267727, i'm guessing an acid dipped frosted top and made in a four piece mould.
7 3/4 inches in height, 3 1/2 inches across the rim and 2 7/8th inches across the base.
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This is the first time that I have seen a photo of JJ & T Derbyshire's RD 267727 Roman vase, Chris - a nice piece.
I notice that Neil doesn't have a picture of it either on the Manchester Glass website at
https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/derbyshire-brothers-designs-by-date/derbyshire-brothers-1870-1872
I presume, therefore, that this is quite a rare item.
Fred.
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Anyone is welcome to use any of my pictures, if i see any more rd's not on here i'll pick them up and add to the archive.