Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Lustrousstone on October 27, 2013, 04:55:39 PM
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Thick clear glass with bubbles, blue and orange frit, and lovely iridescence. 7.25 in tall. I've concluded it could be later Stevens and Williams Caerleon. What do you think please?
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Construction would be right, so no reason why not there. Perhaps matching the shape with other S&W production might be a way forward (not found anything suitable after a brief search).
John
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is it very heavy for size?
m
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Yes - thick glass. Can't tell if it's lead crystal
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dribble..... ;)
If it's not S&W, it's something every bit as good, if not better. I'm itching to get my mitts on it, I bet it feels as wonderful as it looks. ;D
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if you look at the pieces in Hajdamach page 110 (C20 British Glass), and Jackson page 196 (C20 Factory Glass) - two of which are repeated anyway - the blue swirled spatter seems quite a pronounced feature and common to all three pieces. In Christine's picture I can't see this feature - how important is the 'swirl' in terms of provenance for Caerleon - anyone know?? Attractive piece though - was it sold as Caerleon?
Can't think of where to look for more examples...........there isn't anything in Williams-Thomas, other than a text description.
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It wasn't sold as anything, just a vase
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how important is the 'swirl' in terms of provenance for Caerleon - anyone know??
Not really would be my read on it, especially as no particular swirl is evident in this one: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51557.0.html
Could Christine's be the Caerleon blue mentioned in Hajdamach?
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There's no particular swirl but that's probably an artefact of post-blow working. The heavy iridesence hides the detail of the frit and bubbles in photos. Mine is basically just blown
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in terms of surface appearance, it's obviously a variable beast - but this one is a good looker and am sure Christine is correct with her attribution.
Incidentally, how is the name pronounced? :)
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There are no doubt variations but this is not bad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpPaq1LlJTw
I probably put slightly more emphasis on the ae in Caer but the leon is straightforward enough.
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thanks John - all I now have to do is find a piece :)
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Similar piece ? ;D
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_ST468/
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Yet to find one the same shape but I'm confident it's Caerleon in the later blue
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ooh that 's a good find Keith. That looks very similar in the effect/finish to Christine's.
m
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Less blue in this one though and yellow rather than orange
It will be available for cuddling at the National; who's going apart from me, Sue, Suzy and John.
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Me & Patricia ;D
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No help from my side, as I know nothing about S&W...
Just wanted to say that it is a totally gorgeous piece!
Michael
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not for the first time, I'm confused between information in Charles Hajdamach's 20th Century British Glass and the Stevens and Williams book The Crystal Years by R.S. Williams-Thomas.
I picked up on something Christine said earlier in the thread about it being 'a later blue' and went back for a read through about the colours.
The Crystal Years page 23 says
'Caerleon
In 1919 Stevens & Williams LIghting Glass Factory at Tipton produced a range of fancy bowls, vases and jugs which were intended to copy the surface effect of Roman glass. A range of picked-up colours were used and an iridescent surface effect gave the final detail'.
In 20th Century British Glass it says
''Caerleon' first appears in the Stevens and Williams pattern books on 1 January 1929 at pattern number 58564....' and goes on to describe the decor.
I've been picked up before when I queried something written in 20th Century British Glass v that in The Crystal Years and was told the Crystal Years was the definitive book (ref: the use of the colour Rose du Barry and that debate).
So, are they both right? Did it first appear in the pattern books in 1929 as 20th Century British Glass says, but was actually produced 10 years earlier at the Lighting Glass Factory? or is there a typo in The Crystal Years?
m
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check Rakow library for pattern numbers, e.g. Description books, no. 33-36, ware 38108-42889, Nov. 2, 1907 - July 11, 1911. But note pattern numbers refer to the shape and pattern numbers were not always issued consecutively in pattern books (in general, not specific to S&W). But it would give some indication of earliest use. Hajdamach would have had access to the original pattern books.
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thanks Frank - that's interesting re the pattern number relating to shape as Stevens and Williams did use the same shapes for a variety of decors at least in some examples I know of.
Actually it might help if I quote the whole sentence from Charles Hajdamach 20th Century British Glass:
In 20th Century British Glass it says
''Caerleon' first appears in the Stevens and Williams pattern books on 1 January 1929 at pattern number 58564 where it is described as: 'Flint base'/'Caerleon'/'Orange Blue and Yellow splashes pulled Streaky and Iridised'. Variations such as blue were introduced early in 1930 but after then no new Caerleon patterns appear in the pattern books and the emphasis moved to the stylish cut designs on black and green cased glass echoeing the geometric Art Deco fashions'.
Actually rereading the way that sentence is written I read that as three different decors - ' Flint base' and 'Caerleon' and 'Orange Blue and Yellow Splashes pulled Streaky and Iridised'. Does anyone else? Otherwise why wouldn't 'Caerleon' have been written first, if Flint base and the colour decor had been a description of Caerleon?
If they are different decors, maybe Christine's belongs to the 'Orange Blue and Yellow Splashes pulled Streaky and Iridised' ? rather than 'Caerleon'?
m
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You're over analysing - it's a pattern book description. It's describing a flint base vase with Caerleon decor in the Orange Blue and Yellow splashes pulled Streaky and Iridised variant, i.e., starting from the beginning point and working out
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ok :)
so it seems though that Stevens and Williams did describe their decors in their pattern books. Therefore back to square one which is British Glass says it first appeared in the pattern books in 1929 but The Crystal Years says it was made in 1919.
There's quite a difference in time span between the two.
m
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According to description books, 1927-30 so the other book is wrong.
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According to Charles Hajdamach 20th Century British Glass page 109, after a description of Caerleon range which 'they described as 'flint base', 'orange blue and yellow splashes pulled streaky and iridised' (Plate 215)' he says
'Many variations followed including a 'blue and brown rock effect on light amethyst bubbly' glass and 'blue Caerleon with an applied snake'.
Mine looks like those he pictures on page 110 but there isn't a single hint of orange and yellow splashes :-\ Also mine is full of bubbles but yet 'bubbles' doesn't appear in that description.
I've spent all afternoon trying to photograph mine to get that level of iridescence and surface texture from it and I can't.
I do think yours is a Stevens and Williams Caerleon vase but I wonder if it is one of the other variations ? Or whether yours is the range as described above and mine is one of the other variations?
Also I wonder if these were free blown rather than mould blown, and that some of them are kind of one-off shapes?
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This is the blue Caerleon (and with snake and no shortage of bubbles): http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,51557.0.html
John
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Nigel says there is quite a wide range of Caerleon colours, including red frit. Our vases are all Caerleon but without direct access to all the original docs we cannot know the details of exactly what colours and when.
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Brilliant thanks Christine - would love to see the red frit one, I bet that's pretty as well.
From searching on here I thought the Stevens and Williams catalogues were available/out there. I got the impression they were on loan to someone - I thought Dyl Hier had them? Were they bought or on loan does anyone know?
m
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I have a couple, Rakow have more. Broadfield House must too.