Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: brunoknowsnothing on November 06, 2013, 07:37:33 PM
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CAN SOMEONE HELP ME PLEASE..
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ANYONE?? ANY SUGGESTIONS? PLEASE
THANK YOU
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?
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Hello and welcome,gets a bit quiet sometimes here,it's difficult to tell from pictures,the signature looks ok but loads of reproduction stuff is coming out of the far east,could we have a few more pictures,rim,base shots please, ;D ;D
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HERE ARE MORE PICS
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RIM
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HEIGHT
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SIDE..
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Hi Bruno, welcome to the Board.
Firstly please do not use all caps as that is regarded as the internet version of shouting.
As for ID of any Galle item, it will be almost impossible for anyone to confirm via a website of any kind - and especially with only a couple of images. Your best bet will be to consult a top auction house or dealer with specialist knowledge.
The problem is that there are lots of modern copies by various makers. And of those that do not have the "Tip Galle" mark (Romanian source) or what has been called the "Yalle" mark (Chinese source), some are very well made (includes at least one American source) and could fool many knowledgeable people.
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I am curious about the supposedly American source as I know several high end extremely knowledgable art glass dealers on both coasts & I yes the Romanian & Chinese signature ops are well known as they are in the manufacturing process, however I know of nothing that has surfaced about any U.S. op unless its a post manufacturer signature op that can somehow be cut into any previously manufactured blank to create a fake. As for anyone running a full scale production operation (1) if there was a U.S. production/blank/signature manufacturing op, news would have spread like wildfire over here & (2) 95% of any U.S. glass operation who could accomplish this not longer exists & Fenton was the last production operation who had the manpower, skills, equipment, etc. (and they would never do anything like this) unless its a small scale studio operation we do not know about & in our glass community its tough to hide this sort of activity.
Feel free to contact me privately if you wish if you have encountered anyone who knows of such an operation in the U.S.
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i must say.. the "tip" and "yalle" vases are very easy to spot as fake repros but the vase i have shown in the pics looks like a genuine galle.. some one has told me that it does look like a modern fake.. very upset by this.. if there is a US operation makes these fakes it should be shut down.!
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The USA source of "reproduction Galle" items was a studio worker. not a major company. They were selling via eBay some time ago. The eBay listings were always clearly noted as "reproduction" but there were no additional signatures or marks on the glass. Therefore, as soon as pieces entered the secondary market there was no way to be sure about the provenance.
That maker also produced repros of other well known French art glass, and was openly discussing ideas to make repros of 19th century British cameo glass!
Most of the items I saw used the yellow base colour with quite strong overlay colours for the decorative parts. After a while, the eBay listings stopped and I have no idea what happened after that.
I posted about this on the GMB but it was way back in the days before the Board migrated to the current server. I also sent information via email to somebody with a website discussing fake Galle (etc). Unfortunately I no longer have any details.
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Understood. One studio worker could/would slip through the cracks & there may be a candidate who left a decent sized cameo cutting operation around 2009 or 2010, I forget the exact year. You gave the OP excellent advice that the best way to authenticate Galle (and others) is take it to a known dealer. If the OP returns I might suggest the URL below as thsi dealer is well as an expert on Galle (and other)fakes & even has a blog pertaing to fake Galle.
http://www.chasenantiques.com/
He also has a show schedule where the OP can take his piece or email Chasen for other knowledgable dealer contacts perhaps located closer to the OP as his email is on his website.
Quite frankly the vast majority of U.S. collectors now stay away from this line because the repros have destroyed the market values. I don't touch this stuff anymore.
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As it is now virtually impossible to handle any Galle - either from his personal production or from the atelier after his death I would think Galle is a tainted name. Only experts with knowledge from the time before the market got wasted by the Romanians and the Chinese, so top end dealers and museum curators are able to ascertain the feasibility of any piece. The market is thin, the risks are huge...
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I can't help with your id I'm afraid, but I have a request please.
Is it possible to have a very clear picture or two of the base, showing the finish and the pontil mark if there is one. Your current picture doesn't show any delineation of the rim edge of the base nor a pontil mark, or wear (if any) to the base.
Also, is the whole piece polished on the exterior, including the background and the raised cameo work?
I'm sorry if you have a fake. And I recognise you may not want to add further pictures but would appreciate it if you could. I'm curious to see what the detail of the vase looks like please.
Many thanks
m
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I can only go on the tiny damaged piece I have,late production ( I presume) that is matt with a very shallow pontil mark.Should have had a long neck,the pontil mark is inside the white,badly drawn, circle, ;D ;D
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This is probably a stupid question,but can glass be over fired in any part of the process?
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i emailed philip chasen and sent him pictures of my vase.. and he wouldnt tell me if it was real or fake unless i paid the $125 appraisal fee... but he did tell me that all he needed was the two pictures i had originally sent to him... sooo im guessing either he is really really good.. or that the vase was a fraud and he could tell from the two pics that i sent... i do not really see a pontil mark on the bottom... is that possible?
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oh by the way... the vase is not totally polished.. the background(yellowish) areas are a flat non glossy finish and the rest of the decorations are high gloss..
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I was not aware of the $125 appraisal fee so my apology for sending you there. If he stated all he needed was your two pics...well my opinion is that as not a good sign. I am afraid you will have to find a good glass show or knowledgable art glass dealer near you & have the piece examined in person & most dealers at glass shows are willing to give you their opinion at no cost.
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I would have been looking for a base with a round polished pontil mark on it I suppose. I can't see why there wouldn't be one, but I wouldn't definitely know and I am certainly no expert lol. And that alone wouldn't determine whether or not it was real I guess.
With regards the cost of appraisal. In order to gain the knowledge to appraise something, you have to spend lots of time and money on acquiring that knowledge.
If I was asking for an appraisal, I would expect it for insurance and therefore would expect a written appraisal as well which presumably he would give.
I presume this is all offered in the price therefore I wouldn't see that as unacceptable.
However I guess if it turns out the vase is fake, then that would be another $125 the vase has cost you. But if it costs a Galle price in the first place then the appraisal should help you get your money back if it is a fake, and should help you sell it or insure it if it is a genuine piece.
These two sites might help you try and work it out a bit more - and Tiny Esveld has written a book on this issue I think, so that might be worth acquiring.
http://www.tinyesveld.com/p/education/right-or-wrong-lessons-in-glass
http://www.realorrepro.com/article/New-cameo-glass-in-old-designs
Keith thanks for the pics :)
m
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I've just had a search around this board using the search tab above left and there are quite a few pieces on here that are fake. Mike Moir who is a member of the board has given some invaluable information on them.
He sells fabulous Galle pieces amongst many other beautiful pieces :)
It might be worth using the search and having a read to see what you can find out.
Mike can also be contacted via his website here - I don't know whether he does appraisals or not though - I didn't check the site but there may be information on that on the site.
http://www.manddmoir.com/
Hope this helps
m
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I was going to suggest Tiny Esveld aswell, i've contacted her before and there wasn't a charge...got a very nice and quick reply...
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thank you ohio... there is an large antique show at the end of this month in nyc.. i might take a ride down. thank you again guys!
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Best of success Bruno, I hope you are successful one way or another (yes or no).
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We do not know exactly what transpired between the OP & the individual contacted, however I was under the impression that the OP simply wished to know if the Galle piece was a fake or genuine Galle which in my opinion (since I have done more than a few appraisals) is not an appraisal, it’s a straight forward question. If it’s a fake the OP would waste $125 & since the contacted individual evidently stated that no further photos were necessary then one must assume an answer was readily at hand, either yes or no. Now if it was yes then obviously that is where the requested $125 for a written appraisal (if the OP wished to do so) with a determined market value stated comes into play & certainly no problem exists, however according to the OP the contacted individual would go no further with a yes or no as to the legitimacy of the piece unless the fee was paid so what you are dealing with is payment for attribution not an appraisal. I will not waste any words stating what I think of that except to say nowhere would the word appraisal be used.
On the largest of U.S. Boards we dealt with this although it was quite some time ago...individual(s) signing up on the board as members then privately emailing board posters offering the attribution for a fee & this particular situation reminds me of that situation.
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No, I can't agree Ken.
The fee asked for was an appraisal fee. Therefore it is reasonable to assume an appraisal would have been given. I would assume an appraisal would be a written appraisal to be used however best but i haven't checked the sources site to see what an appraisal would constitute. I would assume more than a simple yes or no?
m
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Well then M I guess we have to simply agree to disagree. To me it was a simple question, is this a fake or is it real. The offer for a written appraisal should be tendered based if its real although granted it could be offered even if its a fake if the requested party agrees.
Lets deal with a hypothetical...a site has an entire section based on fakes plus a blog on fakes pertaining to brand X yet when it comes to a simple straight forward question asked is this a real or a fake brand X? Well now lets see...it will cost you $X for you to find out if its real or not. Thats pay for attribution plain & simple & there most certainly is a difference. If its yes its legit then the offer for a written appraisal with market value could be tendered to the party requesting the information & (again) it could even be offered in a its a fake scenerio as in... however if you are interested in an appraisal for your fake I will offer to do an appraisal...its up to you.
What has been posted if it is accurate is not an appraisal at least not the way we do business over here. To me the simple yes or no answer in the beginning takes precedence as in real or fake & then the word appraisal (or offer of same) comes into play.
On second thought this could be the chicken or the egg deal.
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ok :) I'm not a horrible person lol, I freely give away any information I have on here.
But you know sometimes, when it's high values at stake, the knowledge accumulated is very costly. I only do this as a hobby and for love but even my meagre selection of books has probably cost me the best part of $1500. And that's never mind the time I put into reading them. And I don't visit museums or own enormous amounts of high end glass to accumulate knowledge, and that all costs .
Therefore I can understand someone not wanting to 'give it away' freely. That person is trying to sell his stock. Why should he give a potential competitor information I suppose?
Equally I also understand the importance of marketing and good word of mouth :) sometimes one good deed can turn into a gigantic sale I'm sure.
I'm not really disagreeing with the heart of your message. But perhaps there is also another side to things as wel?, there's a balance, he probably gets contacted weekly if not daily, asking if the owner's piece is real or fake if you see what I mean.
m
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M I believe you have hit the nail on the head. I read your post & my dim light bulb lit that the individual in question may well be using the $125 fee as a deterrent. After all much of the the info how to recognize fake versus genuine is readily available on the site (lessons) plus the blog if one takes the time to read it. However it is human nature to skip this step & email the author & there are two ways (at least) to stop this practice...eliminate the site info on fake versus genuine altogether or set (for lack of a better term) a personal confirmation fee.
I can honestly relate to this. In 1999 I & a fellow Ohioian along with a gentleman from Florida published a small website dealing with Erickson Glass (Bremen, Ohio 1943-1961) because 75% of Erickson being offered for sale (and selling) on eBay was not Erickson, it was primarily Murano. Back them anything with bubbles was touted as Erickson art glass. It was a seven page site with 122 color photos of different forms & the colors produced by Erickson. We purposely did not provide any contact info, no names & no emails, however within 45 days two of us began receiving "is this Erickson" emails with photos & it grew to the point that they were numbering 20+ emails daily. This went on for a month even after I added "The authors of this site will not answer unsolicited emails for identification purposes. Please carefully read the information provided on this site to make a determination of what is or what is not Erickson".
It did not slow the emails so after another three weeks, following a short discussion with the other two authors I deep-sixed the site altogether along with my Yahoo email account.
Why I did not consider this before your latest comment...well at times I suffer a disorder called tunnel vision. Ken