Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Antwerp1954 on November 07, 2013, 11:58:24 AM
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I recently bought these four gilded glasses all with facet stems. Under UV light they all give yellow luminescence so are not made of lead glass. The gilding has been applied to the cut glass and there is no engraving. From left to right i'll call them Glass A, Glass B, Glass C and Glass D (imaginative?) and post separate topics for each.
Can anyone help with age or origin?
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Hi ,
They are all most likely to be German or Bohemian,though I have seen some described as Russian , 2nd 1/2 of the 18th century,those with flat ground bowl rims will have been made entirely from the bowl end , the foot having been applied as a gob of hot metal and wooden boards used to shape the gob into a foot ,the whole glass is then broken off the blowing iron at the bowl end and the rims ground flat , so no pontil marks on the feet , if the larger glass has a fire polished rim then the foot could have been blown separately and applied as per normal and a punty iron applied to the foot to enable fire polishing of the rim ,the punty scar would then have been polished off , if the larger has a flat ground rim then the other method would have been used and the blob left from the gob would have been ground away to leave the polished pontil mark .
cheers ,
Peter.
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Peter
Many, many thanks. All the rims have been ground or polished to make them flat. It was something I certainly did not notice.
Stuart
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Good looking glasses - intact gilding is attractive.
Peter.........from what you're saying about these glasses, it seems that Continental pieces with facet cut stems (these are all drawn stems from what you're saying), date, potentially, to earlier in the C18 than their counterparts in the U.K. If you read Bickerton he seems obsessed with giving a date of about 1785 - 1800 (mostly 1785) for faceted stem glasses, thus restricting them to what is a quite brief period.
I don't collect Continental material so don't have first hand knowledge, but useful to know that there is this difference in the start date for this particular style of cutting.
Stuart, genuinely surprised by your comment that you handn't noticed the style of finish of the rims. :)
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Hi ,
The dates given by Bickerton for facet stems are not regarded as at all accurate today ,Martin Mortimer of Delomosnes wrote a very good paper on the subject quite some time ago , it is now accepted that although the most popular period for them was in the 70.80.90s they were in fact made quite a lot earlier some are known with folded feet ( Pair shown) , I have a baluster glass English c 1710/15 that has a facet cut knop and is accepted by all the boffins worldwide as probably the earliest example of Facet cutting on an English drinking glass ,there are about 3 other examples known , facet cutting is also found on other items such as cruets and these can also date to the early 18th c , but the continentals I think still win as facet cutting can be found on 17th c examples.
cheers ,
Peter.
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I wonder if I can ask a question please?
I used to own a lustre that had a facet cut stem and domed facet cut foot. I asked about it on here I think and no reply.
I couldn't find any information on lustres earlier than Victorian but always wondered when mine would date to.
The whole piece was cut in various ways.
Was it earlier than mid Victorian or was I right with date?
I can see that the facets are differently done btw. Just that I've always wondered about it especially because it had a domed foot I think.
m
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Hi ,
Sorry no help from me on this one I know nothing about them.
cheers ,
Peter.
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ok thanks Peter.
m
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but I know a book that does ;)
Lustres do go back well into the C18, but according to Wilkinson this one (like many other shapes) can be dated reasonably accurately to 1850 - 60 - by reference to the style of the cutting of the drops. On yours the drops appear to be known as 'fancy cut back Albert drops' - the name originating, as you might guess, with Victoria's Prince Consort.
With earlier lustres, dating is possible by means of the type of cutting - the further you go back the more limited and more shallow the cutting becomes, and other factors such as colour of glass and shape of drop is also important.
Ref. 'The Hallmarks of Antique Glass' - R. Wilkinson - 1968 (pp. 98 and 102).
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Peter - thanks for the dating revision on the facet-cut stems. Is Martin Mortimer's article accessible easily?
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Hi ,
It may be the one on this page . http://www.delomosne.co.uk/page33/page33.html
cheers ,
Peter.
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thanks - one or two worth getting I think.
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thank you Paul
m
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Stuart, genuinely surprised by your comment that you handn't noticed the style of finish of the rims. :)
Paul - perhaps I was focussing too much on other aspects. The flat rims now stand out like a sore thumb! we live and (hopefully, slowly) learn!