Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: agincourt17 on November 25, 2013, 08:48:28 PM
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I am led to believe that this unmarked amber glass boot (which stands 4 inches high) is from Greener & Co.s registered design number 103975 of 17 July 1888.
Does anyone have a marked example (either with the RD number or the Greener trademark), or is anyone able to find any kind of reference that confirms it, please?
Fred.
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Fred, I don't have this on my list of pictures already taken - so you may have to add to the Look Up Requests, and I'll enquire next time I go.
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Thank you, Paul - will do.
Fred.
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Hi Fred
I have only any had 2 of these boots. The first one that I sold some years ago did have a Rd number .
I have checked through my pictures, but at that time did not always keep them so cannot confirm . I do have a picture of the same boot which I bought later but the second one looks unmarked.
I have a contact in the USA who collect shoes , I will ask her if she has any.
I also have the book Shoes of Glass by Libby Yalom who is also friends with my contact
Roy
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Thank you, Roy.
I await any response from your contacts with interest.
Fred.
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Fred
I cannot confirm if the boot is Greener or not. I have been told from my friend in the USA that she has 2 one in amber and one in black but they are not marked.
I am more than 99.9% sure that possibly 7 or 8 years ago I did sell an amber Greener boot with a Rd number on it.
Roy
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Thank you, Roy.
Fred.
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Dear Agincourt
May I ask very respectfully a question? I have followed glassmessages closely recently and have seen many of your posts. I am interested in research of many kinds and am wondering for what reason you ask for precise registration details for the many wonderful pieces of glass that you post. If you think that this question is out of place, then that is fine but I am so intrigued by the questions and I think it would help me further my education into this most absorbing hobby.
Many thanks in advance.
Santa
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Santa,
The wonder of glass is, of course, is within its very nature plastic and malleable, capable of transformation into a huge variety of forms and colours whether in the expert hands of the artisan or artist, or by industrial processes enabling mass production.
Although I appreciate many kinds of glass for their intrinsic style, beauty or usefulness, I like to be able to compare one piece with another and, in my case, relate or classify them stylistically, historically or technically. I think most people who appreciate glass for any number reasons like to know how a piece was made, who made it, and when it was likely to have been made.
Begun in 1842, British design registrations were primarily a means of providing copyright protection for a (supposedly) unique design feature sometimes the shape of a piece, sometimes the decoration (or part of the decoration) on a piece, and sometimes the combination of the two. The protection was for a fixed period of time, and could be renewed. From my point of view though, if a glass item bears British design registration details (be it a registry date lozenge or design registration number) then that provides many of my requirements for placing it reliably (or even precisely) within in a stylistic, historical, chronological, or technical classification, namely:
The design registrant, who was often, but not always, the manufacturer of the item. For some items, the design was registered by an agent or importer on behalf of a manufacturer; sometimes the registrant was the actual designer of copyright owner of the design. The actual registers also give the address of the registrant.
The registration date day, month and year.
The registered design number, enabling (in theory) a precise location for the details within the registers (and also a cross reference to the design representation - a pictorial representation, normally a drawing or photograph, of the registered unique design feature).
I have a strong interest in British glass made broadly during the period just overlapping Queen Victorias reign (say 1835-1910), especially the history of glass manufacture during that period and the developing social and artistic implications of the availability of affordable, mass-produced, factory-made glassware.
Fortunately, the GMB has proved to be the ideal forum for resolving many of my queries, and hopefully other like-minded members have also benefited from the interchange of information that it provides.
Fred.
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Beautifully put Fred......I love your posts...I have learnt so much :)
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Thank you, Angela.
People of like mind can usually achieve much more working in concert than in isolation, and certainly my location in a rural outpost in the mid-Wales borders is comparatively isolated physically from the mainstream of many things. Thanks to the power of the internet, however, physical location is of little disadvantage when participating in the activities of the GMB.
My main regret is that personally accessing the catalogues of The National Archives at Kew is not physically possible, though Paul Stirling has worked wonders accessing the treasures at TNA on my behalf.
Fred.
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Thank you so much, Fred for your comprehensive reply. I too have learned a lot from this board and from your questions and others' replies.
Best wishes
Santa
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must own up to having a senior moment with this particular request. Visited Kew the other day, with all details so that I could complete the outstanding Look Up requests. Have taken great pix of the boot and part of the Register entry - but seems I have missed the most vital bit of data, which is the name of the Registrant. So, my apologies folks, and hope to complete this item when TNA opens after Christmas.
Meanwhile just hope Santa is concentrating on getting the reindeer ready. ;) ;)
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At last, a marked example of the boot as shown in my first post, this time in opaque black glass marked with RD number 103975 (as I suspected).
(Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by Kevin Collins).
The last photo shows the boot in three different colours black, amber and blue. Kevin tells me that the amber boot is clearly marked, but the blue boot is unmarked.
Although Jenny Thompson (page 15) lists the RD number and registration date she does not give a description of the design.
Does anyone have photos to show of this RD 103975 boot in other colours, please?
Fred.
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so, if I had Kew pictures of the boot back in December 2013, why didn't I post them??? ........ no idea - anyway they're now attached and taken as of today at the National Archives - although no idea for what purpose this Greener boot was made.... just a novelty perhaps.
If we have any footwear specialist members, do they know if this was a contemporary design in the 1880s or was it a pattern from an earlier fashion?? - presumably a ladies style??
Rodney was there again - wouldn't talk to me tho - you can see he just gave me the evil eye........... there was a family of Mallard, which included 10 babies - now there's just one left, and I notice Rodney was licking his lips. :'(
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I know almost nothing about fashion. But there is an "honest-looking" site (http://blog.dancestore.com/category/womens-shoes-all/1880s-womens-shoes/) that shows examples of that style of boot for the 1880s with the side buttoning and shaped top. Keep scrolling through to find the several examples.
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Thank you, Paul, for the design representations and the update on that particular example of Ardea cinerea. I'm surprised there is anything left to eat at all with the likes of Rodney in the vicinity. Perhaps Rodney should get the boot from his poolside position.
Thank you, Kevin, for the fashion link.
Amazing how a query on a glass forum leads on to ornithology and the finer points of Victorian footwear.
Fred.
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thanks to both. ;D I can imagine the very pale looking almost 'spats' part of the ankle area must have picked up a lot of mud/grime in view of the condition of roads etc. in the 1880s - the heels look very similar in many of the Victorian shoe/boot designs.
As you can imagine with a public oriented institution such as The National Archives - they are very conscious of being seen to be unbiased and non-discriminatory to all forms of life - so they probably try to allow nature to take it's course in many cases, although I'm aware that this summer they have removed at least one cygnet for health reasons, although sadly believe another has died.
Most of the time Rodney is the sole heron on the ponds at Kew, it's only very rarely that he has a companion. Have to say that apart from small fish I'm not really well versed on his diet, but apparently it does seem he's not averse to baby birds, unfortunately.
It's remarkable to see that whenever I visit, almost without exception he is standing in virtually the identical spot.
Herons are not uncommon in the northern parts of Surrey where it abuts the Greater London area - probably the wetlands which help - the remainder of the county is quite dry due to the chalk etc.
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Rodney's diet will include almost any fish, mammal, bird or amphibian that fits in his throat.
Watching a heron swallow a young moorhen is an "interesting" experience. And frog's legs hanging out of the side of the beak is a sight that not too many people find pleasing.