Glass Message Board
Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: Anne E.B. on December 01, 2013, 11:19:47 AM
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For interest, two very nice pieces made by Edward Moore & Co. both with impressed RD.58275 (7th October 1886), in their "Caramel" colour.
The footed bowl is described as a "sugar" on a website of English glass, but is shown in flint.
I've never come across this colour before. Its quite delicious ;)
Please feel free to put it in the Gallery :)
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very nice indeed Anne - Mr. Green here :) Lattimore shows a picture of the sugar in caramel, and says 'rare'.
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Very desirable, Anne.
Here is how they usually seen - clear glass, with a comport and two-handled bowl in the same pattern.
(Permission for the re-use of the image of the creamer on the GMB granted by trebor3944, and the pedestal sugar or sweetmeat by greenpeace2010).
The only other colour that I have seen Edward Moore pieces in is an opaque white.
Fred.
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Moore also made an interesting blue-green opaque glass.
Sid
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thanks Sid. According to Slack, Moore patented two new colours in March 1887 - one was patent No. 4822 for the colour which we now call caramel brown - presumably the same colour of Anne's pieces above.
The other patent is No. 4821 and was described by Ed. Moore as "an opaque glass of a soft shade of green ....similar to what is termed 'Celadon' in porcelain manufacture........... I believe he later called this colour 'Eau de Nil', and the specification shows this to have contained uranium oxide.
Might this be the colour you mention?
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I guess you mean this colour - I originally thought these matched a Molineaux Webb pattern but all the evidence now points to Moore.
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nice pieces Neil, but regret I'm unable to say if your colour is the 'blue-green' which Sid mentions - don't believe I've ever seen it in the flesh.
If Edward Moore likened the shade of his patented colour to celadon, then possibly not.
I'd always thought of celadon as verring more to green, and this appears to be confirmed by the fact that Moore seemed to settle on calling his new colour 'Eau de Nil'. I could be wrong, but in view of the uranium content, then presumably it would fluoresce, and might be more of a pale yellowish green, but really not sure.
As Sid had mentioned this colour, was wondering if he is able to show a piece :)
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And of course, Moore made uranium (yellow-green "vaseline") too.
Nice pieces, Anne. Congratulations!
GT
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Hello
I don't have an example to post because Neil (curse him! LOL!) outbid me for the set he posted above but that is the colour I was talking about. Both the caramel and the blue/green can be found in a range of shades indicating that colour control was a challenge for Moore.
Sid
p.s. Neil, I still have room for that set on my shelves ... and that terrible colour clashes with all that Manchester glass... and Christmas is coming...
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could well be wrong, but I remain to be convinced that Neil's pieces are Moore's 'eau de nil'...........I'm well aware that colour control was an imperfect art, which is why factories had clauses to protect them from disputes over variations. This matter is complicated by the fact that Ed. Moore, like most pressed manufacturers at the time, did apparently produce a blue Vitro-Porcelain that, presumably, would have looked like Neil's pieces. Perhaps someone is able to post a picture of Moore's blue Vitro-Porcelain (known provenance), so that a comparison can be made - it would be surprising perhaps if batch colour variation had overlapped to the extent that on occasions 'eau de nil' and 'blue' were indistinguishable entirely.
With apologies to Anne E. B. for digressing from that delicious caramel ;) My OH makes a Caramel desert (sort of blancmange textured thingy) - scrumptious - I could sit and eat half a doz. in one go :)
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Hello Paul
could well be wrong, but I remain to be convinced that Neil's pieces are Moore's 'eau de nil'...........
I am unclear as to whether you are questioning if Neil's pieces are Moore or if they are "eau de nil"? Regardless, here is a link to an ebay auction with an "eau de nil" sugar basin in the same pattern as Anne originally posted:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161145890995 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/161145890995)
I do have photos of a cream and sugar in this pattern and colour but they are not mine to share unfortunately.
Sid
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I will contact the ebay seller and seek permission for the re-use of the image of the eau-de-nil sugar on the GMB.
Fred.
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thanks Sid - I was being sceptical about the issue of colour................... 'eau de nil' seems to be an elusive colour for which to find verification in the books - as far as I'm aware none of my volumes includes a colour picture of this invention.
Neil has described his two pieces as 'turquoise, which presumably must mean they are shaded more to the blue than green, and looking at them I didn't get an immediate feeling they appeared sufficiently green enough for what I assumed 'eau de nil' must look like.
I can only repeat the words of Ed. Moore himself having first created this, when he said......"glass of a soft shade of green colour"......although I know we've commented earlier about the problems of colour variation.
I don't doubt the pattern is Moore.
As I've said, I don't have any pieces of this colour, and may be getting carried away with what my mind thinks it should be seeing - also am aware that other contributors to this thread are almost certainly better informed about pressed glass and its colours than I am.
Being permanently a 'doubting thomas', I'd still like to see a comparison with Moore's ordinary blue Vitro-Porcelain - but will admit that the piece in your ebay link does have more of a 'celadon' appearance. :)
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The colour of these things is tricky to capture in a photo as the flash makes them look more blue than they really are. I would say they were pretty close to eau de nil.
Now for the bad news - I donated these pieces to charity some months ago (sorry Sid!)
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:(
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:o long time I guess since the Nile was that shad of bluey-green. ;)
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I was led to believe that both of these little posy vases were by Edward Moore. The each measure 7cm x 8cm. Neither has any identifying markings.
(Permission for the re-use of these images on the GMB granted by *jonglos).
Can anyone confirm that they are, indeed by Edward Moore?
If so, then the opaque example is presumably in their eau-de-Nil glass.
Incidentally, if anyone is still unsure what colour eau-de-Nil is normally thought to be, then have a look at the colour sample at
http://www.littlegreene.com/eau-de-nil
Fred.
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thanks - I had in fact already looked at that particular colour patch, which was what prompted me to consider that Neil's pieces were perhaps too blue to be 'eau de nil'. Certainly this little posy does have a 'soft green' look, and is much nearer to what I think of generally as the appearance of celadon.
sorry, but can't help with confirmation these green pieces are Moore. I saw the same design yesterday, somewhere, but it was a clear colour like your blue version.
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Hello Agincourt17, I have a few of those pots in slag glass. Here is a link to some photos, there are two - one a delicious green and the other a vivid blue:
https://picasaweb.google.com/103416468472622115928/ShowTell2?authkey=Gv1sRgCOvir_2iz7Pj-QE#5973335807435812578
Hopefully you will be able to click through and see all images for both pieces.
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Thank you, exislegirl, for the link.
I also have the posy vase in a bright blue transparent glass, a colour more associated with Greener and Co. rather than Edward Moore, though I have still to see any example with a Greener trademark. It may well be that they are made by someone else entirely, of course.
Fred.
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Hello Fred, I also have two more of these pots in a larger size (about double the size) and these are white (one is solid milk glass, and the other has translucent tips to the points above the rim). Just thought I'd add that info in case that helps with finding an ID for the maker.
Natalie