Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: brucebanner on December 19, 2013, 06:00:32 PM
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Hello can any one put a name date and use to this piece of glass for me please, it has some wear to the inner neck but only a very small amount, ? from diamond rings ? or lost it's stopper very early on in life, regards Chris.
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I would think it has lost its stopper, and it would be a claret jug, wouldn't it?
I've seen stoppers on old bits of glass which actually do fit perfectly without there being a specifically ground section on both bits, perhaps that might have been what made the few marks there are?
I can't imagine why anybody would be putting diamond-ringed fingers inside the neck. :-\
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Ok thanks for that, most the marks on glass in my opinion are caused by diamonds in rings on peoples fingers, well at least that's what i think, i can see that statement going down a storm. So many of my nice drinking glasses have circular scratches on the inside of the glass, i could not think what else they would be caused by, i can't see a fine piece of crystal been cleaned with sandpaper. Did any of these decanters have cork stoppers i wonder?
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Cork stoppers in older vessels tend as far as I know (which isn't much) to have Scandanavian origins, (and a metal bar with a loop through them) but, as I think I have said in one of your threads before, cut glass isn't my area - neither is very much old stuff. I'm much fonder of studio glass, and modern design, but I do take an interest in general, in anything to do with glass of any sort.
And I have seen the sorts of marks you show, which have been created by a smooth-looking stopper being put firmly into a smooth looking neck. Honest!
:)
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I've got a studio vase which has been bugging me for years, i'll put that one on in the morning you may be able to help me with that, what date and era of studio glass are you into?
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I kind of started accidentally with Michael Harris, then found out about Sam Herman coming over to the RCA in '67, and his influence - so anything from the RCA circa '67, or early Mdina and IoWSG, up to about the mid-70s.
But as with any research, the more you find out, the more you find out there is to find out...
I like Eisch and Motzfeldt, I've been tracking down the "story" of Malta Decorative Glass and how to identify it.
Sort of the more European arm of the Studio Glass Movement, although I have some interesting American early bits too.
I'm also quite into several contemporary artists' work.
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It looks to have a strap handle - attached top down, which would suggest - assuming this is an authentic piece - a date of something like 1855 to 1875............this would correspond with the copper wheel engraving which was very popular around that period.
The problem is that styles have been copied and you'd need to look perhaps at other features to help. What is the extent, if any, of wear on the foot, and is there a 'matching No.' around the rim/neck area (inside or outside). Is the colour of the glass right, or is it too bright for example - what about wear on the bulge of the body...........the part of the bottle that will always knock/rub against other items, and take most of the external side wear.
You can always try finding a stopper with a reasonable fit, and then finish off with valve grinding paste to try and achieve a better fit. I've heard it said that in the C19 they'd shove the bottle in a lathe and using a similar process with paste, keep inserting the stopper with increasing pressure until they had a good fit.
You'll never find a maker of course - might be from almost anywhere.
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Thanks paul it's got all the right features you have mentioned, colour, age wear to base and the marks around the fat outer rim, it looks the part and strange you should mention the date, i picked it up yesterday with a lovely heavy lead pressed glass cake stand or at least i think it's a cake stand it has a rim of at least 12 inches across, with a date lozenge of 1872, i'll put that on here see if i can get a makers name for it and a positive id on what it is.
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It's always useful to include the size of these pieces - especially with decanters and similar, as there are miniatures, trade samples etc. - don't think I've seen a size mentioned for this one :)
I could be wrong, but think it's unlikely the pressed cake stand will be lead glass - quite possibly a little sun purpled perhaps, and the weight will probably be due to its thickness - some were very chunky. Look forward to seeing this piece, which can be checked against the Kew images if you wish - I know there are a couple of Derbyshire cake stands in that year.
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A fair amount of the early pressed glass was lead crystal
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This water jug is very close to matching pattern 7043 in the Molineaux Webb pattern book - only the 4 leaf clover on the body and the twisty handle differentiate them. Pattern 7043 was made about 1865 give or take a year so is a good indication as to when the piece above was made. 7043 came in 4 varieties, one as a decanter with stopper, and 3 variants of unstoppered water jug, one very squat with a matching goblet, one less squat and a longer one which didn't have a round top - more of a tip & pour teapot top (grrr - what's the word for this, brain addled today).
The pattern varied a little on 3 of the pieces, and substantially on the other, using a Greek Key around the body but still categorised under 7043 pattern number.
It is indeed very difficult to match these to a maker. After 5 or so years with the M&W pattern book I have hardly found an exact match for anything, and suspect many cut pieces were one offs, even if they made it into the book.
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Fantastic, what a description, i thought it a water jug when i picked it up, it's absolutely beautiful and will stay with me, thanks for your's and everyone's help.
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thanks for the comments regarding lead content of earlier pressed glass, which I probably didn't know. :) According to Ray. Slack, Sowerby did contine to use small amounts of oxide of lead in their pressed glass, apparently it helps to improve the refractive property of the glass giving a bit more sparkle.
There is a very notieable difference in sound, obviously, when flicking pressed glass as compared to full lead crystal, and who knows, maybe Chris does have a full lead crystal pressed glass cake stand :)