Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: bat20 on January 14, 2014, 12:48:59 PM
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Hi all, i've been confident about a piece being Webb and been wrong before so i've put this one here, it's got alot of furry wear on the base that doesn't show up very well on the photo and a large polished pontil,it's 9cm ht and 18cm wd and i should mention it's quite heavy for it's size,any ideas many thanks.
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with unmarked examples, not always easy to tell the difference between, for example, Webb and Richardson - although I have this personal view that with the latter this shade appears a more rich colour.
Try this link, it might be of interest..........
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46385.msg260537.html#msg260537
In view of Webb's ownership of Richardson in the early 1930's (hope I have that right), plus the fact that both names appeared to work virtually under the same roof, then separating the two productions is perhaps not easy. :)
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The Webbs vase on the left is marked, the assumed Richardson vase on the right is unmarked.
There is more pronounced blue tone to the purple in the vase on the right than in the Webbs vase (as Paul said more purple, less amethyst).
Bat's looks more amethyst than purple...
John
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Thanks chaps ,it has exactly the same texture as the one on the right, i'm taking it both firms did the same.Can i ask what date it may be,it doesn't feel or look 30's to me more sort of art nouveau.Just an add on,the colour in the photo has a red hint to my eyes and this is not the case in real life.
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my example of the deeper purple vase - shown in the link I attached - is marked with the Union flag, so there's no doubt as to its origin, and according to Hajdamach pieces like these date to the 1930's. The decoration aside, this 'conical' shape does appear to have been a popular shape during the art deco period - roughly early 1920's to the late 1940's - whereas Art Nouveau - c. 1880 to the end of the 14/18 war - is usually more sinuous in shape, and mostly lacks angular design.
The extent of T/Webb's design/colour range seems colossal in comparison with those from Richardson, although this dip-moulded/lensed effect does appear to have been common to both factories, as shown in this marked example from T/Webb (yet another conical shape), which also happens to fluoresce.
Did Richardson produce any glass which included uranium?
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I think it's a completely different colour to Paul's and John's Richardson purple vases. I've seen a marked Richardson's purple but don't have one, but remember thinking it was a truly glorious rich royal colour - I regretted leaving it behind and posted a thread on it on here ;D
Your vase looks amethyst to me by comparison, so unless in real life it is the same royal purple as the two on the thread, and it's the camera that's distorting the colour on yours, I would call it amethyst.
Did Richardson's make an amethyst in these ranges as well as the purple?
And did they twist their molds? The one I recall seeing was I believe like John and Paul's, no twist.
m
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Thanks m,this is closer to it,but maybe a little less colour intensity.
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Infact i think the best way to describe it would be between the two ::)it's a Ribb lol.
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I think it is easier to chase your own tail than compare colours via photographs. ;D
Different cameras and lighting will introduce all sorts of variation, your vase looks like it could be made by Webb. Finding another example that is marked and has the same shape and size would clinch it.
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Ok thanks m,it would be nice to get an id right for a change :)i'll keep my eyes open for another signed and dated example,thanks again for all the help.
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that was John :) but he's right ;D - a marked shape/pattern match for either would be a good reference.
colours on monitors don't translate well.
I'm having a real problem trying to photograph a vase I've just asked a query on because the light reflections in the camera just don't represent what it looks like in real life, which is much prettier than my pics lol.
m
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my example of the deeper purple vase - shown in the link I attached - is marked with the Union flag, so there's no doubt as to its origin, and according to Hajdamach pieces like these date to the 1930's. The decoration aside, this 'conical' shape does appear to have been a popular shape during the art deco period - roughly early 1920's to the late 1940's - whereas Art Nouveau - c. 1880 to the end of the 14/18 war - is usually more sinuous in shape, and mostly lacks angular design.
The extent of T/Webb's design/colour range seems colossal in comparison with those from Richardson, although this dip-moulded/lensed effect does appear to have been common to both factories, as shown in this marked example from T/Webb (yet another conical shape), which also happens to fluoresce.
Did Richardson produce any glass which included uranium?
Sorry Paul,i missed this one thanks,it's just that this seems sort of soft as shapes go and the wear is like older pieces i've found,but that's good to learn.
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My uv torch has just turned up,"oh joy bats got a uv torch :(",i can hear you all shout ;)and through the thickest part of the foot their is a green glow,faintly on the main body,wasn't expecting that from a purple colour.
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I'm surprised that you're getting a green response from a purple/amethyst piece - can assume only that it's caused by some manganese in the glass - can't imagine it's from a uranium content.
Manganese is used in clear glass as a decolouriser, and generally it gives a greyish green sort of response under u.v. - not the bright green from uranium - maybe it's also added to the batch in some coloured glass, but I'm only guessing, and am sure Christine will put me right. ;)
glad to hear you have a u.v. torch - hours of fun will now ensue. :)
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Perhaps it's the Mn Paul,,i've shut myself under the stairs again and there is green light,not madly glowing green though.
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That's the clue. You should be able to see uranium without hiding in the dark and it is NOT a faint glow. It should be bright green. Yours is manganese, which is used to make purple...
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Thanks,my jade glass on the other hand glows for England! :o
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Not sure it helps but there is a marked Richardson version on this site
http://www.cranberryglass.co.uk/
m
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Here's the link
http://www.cranberryglass.co.uk/amethyst1.htm
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Thank you :-*
m
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Thanks m&c,interesting not least for the variation in amethyst colours,it's similar to the colour i posted first and i bet it's not quite the same in the real, same as mine.I'm still waiting for someone to post a Webb the same and considering they are more common it's surprising no one has got one.
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quote from John ........... "I think it is easier to chase your own tail than compare colours via photographs. ;D" ..... I think that was one of the best comments in this thread - trying to compare pix on the screen is very defeating at times.
Regret I can't help bat with the request for a T/Webb marked amethyst example identical to the piece posted first of all.
It's unfortunate that with such well known and collected factories as these two, we don't yet have an authoratitive published guide to their post 1920's output. I wonder if it is worth me suggesting that we make some sort of effort in that direction by having a T/Webb and/or Richardson section in the Board's Glass Gallery - with catptioned info - so that a small visual library of sorts is provided for id.
I do have a few pieces that could be included, and I'm sure that others would contribute. Is that feasible Mods?? :)
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Do we have a pre-1920's reference for Richardson?
Having spent months chasing my tail on my blue Etruscan vase, I finally accumulated enough evidence to make me feel confident to send a request for help. If Richardson are going to be done it would be good to do the 'whole' thing I think - unless there is one out there?
m
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sorry to seem thick m, but not entirely sure what you mean by.......................... "Do we have a pre-1920's reference for Richardson?" :)
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just that you talked about having a post 1920's reference and I'd like one pre as well :)
In fact, I'd just like a proper individual reference guide for each of Richardson (lots of info in CH British Glass 1800-1914), Stevens and Williams, Thomas Webb and Stuart full stop ;D for the whole period from start to finish.
m
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Anne kindly helped me set up a Sowerby photo reference gallery on the GMB’s Glass Queries Gallery at
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/index.php
and the GMB’s photo reference gallery of Registered Designs is already there too.
I can’t see that there should be a major problems in setting up any number of other ‘Individual Company or Type Projects’ in the same location. I suggest that you contact Anne direct by email though the GMB with the putative descriptive ‘blurb’ for the requisite gallery and await her usual helpful reply.
Fred.
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my comments m were meant to read as.......... "I wish someone would publish a book, with as comprehesive a coverage as possible, showing all of the known T/Webb colours and shapes" ....... I'd be the first in the queue to buy a copy - and of course the same goes for Stuart.
As can be seen in Gulliver and elsewhere, there appears to have been a keen-ness in the second half of the C19 for patents and Registrations, although it seems to have waned in the C20 - perhaps other events occupied peoples minds. As far as I know, T/Webb didn't seem to register their C20 designs/shapes, so outside of a few items in CH, for example, we don't have an authoratitive pictorial guide.
But then perhaps that would make like too easy ;)
Some of the iconic Richardson designs - I'm thinking of those Roman and Greek characters on vases etc., appear in the Nat. Archive pix, but there may have been other gems that they produced which don't occur there.
Regret that Richardson's output in both centuries is not something I'm remotely knowledgable about, and I see them only occasionally when I'm ploughing through the Archive pix - usually when I'm looking for other things.
My earlier comments about having a GMB archive of T/Webb pix doesn't have much appeal perhaps - I suspect that there aren't too many folk who take an interest in that factory.
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I'm very interested in Richardson's and just WISH I could see the archive pictures :'(
I dare not ask you for any more help ;D but if Broadfield House don't come up trumps ... I can't believe I lived a short hop from the archives for so many years, yet never collected glass then.
Yes it would make life to easy. But I can't seem to find anything on T Webb 19th c. or early 20th apart from cameo , the museum collections which are not extensive online images it has to be said (V&A please can you photograph your glass collection? ) and the same old misattributions on the net (probably), and the odd couple of vases in other books and museum.
m