Glass Message Board

Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: dirk. on January 15, 2014, 08:10:05 PM

Title: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on January 15, 2014, 08:10:05 PM
An old technique on a modern - ca. 60´s / 70´s -  piece.
No pontil scar, ca. 11cm tall and 14cm wide.
Any ideas?

TIA
Dirk
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: glassobsessed on January 15, 2014, 10:19:13 PM
Wow, very very nice.

It could be older than that.

John
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on January 16, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
Thank you, John! When you say older - how much would you be thinking?
 :)
Someone kindly gave me the link to this auction:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/glass-vase-CHLUM-u-Trebone-Jan-GABRHEL-sklo-union-Czechoslovakia-/400639471433
Mmh, Chlum & Trebone wouldn´t seem such a bad idea IMHO.
Anyone know if they made overshot pieces also? The design in general does look a bit Gabrhel-like...  ???
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: glassobsessed on January 17, 2014, 11:15:54 AM
The shape of yours seems quite Deco to me Dirk - the indentations and that angular neck. My first thought was perhaps a high quality maker operating in the 1920s.
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2014, 12:30:07 PM
I would rather tend to agree with you, John.
There is something quite special about this, I can't put my finger on it, it reminds me of some of Maurice Marinot's work, in general appearance - I don't think it's likely to be his work.
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: glassobsessed on January 17, 2014, 02:54:42 PM
Interesting you should say that Sue as I wondered about a Gallic influence too, the first book I looked in was one on Daum but no joy there.
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2014, 05:13:38 PM
The pics of the Chlum & Trebone piece and Dirk's are taken under very diffferent lighting conditions...
(Dirk's are vastly superior images), but this could be the answer?
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on January 17, 2014, 07:40:04 PM
Many thanks for your thoughts - much appreciated.  :)
It´s good to get a different view, neither of your suggestions had come to my mind.
Anyone´s got an idea how the technique ´overshot´ would translate into french?
And thanks for your compliment, Sue - the light table pays off, doesn´t it?  ;)
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: bat20 on January 17, 2014, 08:00:29 PM
Very interesting piece,it's like something Timo Sarpaneva would design except more so,if you know what i mean.
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2014, 08:09:27 PM
As far as I know 'Cristal Granite' is how I've read it in French (iirc)
mmm, nope that brings up funerary urns  ::)
I'll have another check
m
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2014, 08:18:39 PM
Your light table certainly does work well Dirk, but you still have to take the picture from the correct point of view to show it off to its best - talent does come into it.
What does it feel like to hold?
Is it all horrible, like mathey crinkles (just a yukky, dirty sandpapery feeling) or wfs glacier (which is sharp and unescapable because you have to hold it firmly because of the weight) or does it feel ok?
m, you gave me a giggle, thanks! :-*
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2014, 08:21:50 PM
 ;D
In the Clichy book it is described as cristal granité (accent on e)- unfortunately that search doesn't bring up overshot glass - sorry Dirk  :-[

that Chlum vase looks a definite possible to me.  Beautiful vase and photos Dirk :)
m
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on January 17, 2014, 08:33:37 PM
Don´t worrée, m, perhaps someone will jump in...   :)  :-*

Sue, the texture feels slightly rough. Perhaps like you describe the WF glacier; only perhaps though because
I´ve never handled one. The tiny shards (I´d call them rather than frits) are fire-polished just to the point
they aren´t sharp enough any more to get hurt.
The base may have been stuck to a pontil rod. Possibly just because I expect to see them some of the small
shards seem to have a slight angle like from grinding and polishing. In case it´s not just imagination it´s been
done in a very skilled way without disturbing the overshot effect. :-/
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on January 17, 2014, 08:34:30 PM
BTW the ebay auction only says ´possibly´.
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: chopin-liszt on January 17, 2014, 08:46:57 PM
oh.  :'(
it would be a good id to have.

A high quality piece, if it is well fire-polished enough to be comfortable to hold. I sort of thought it would be.  ;D
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on January 17, 2014, 09:52:53 PM
Sue,you need to see some in real life.  They look absolutely gorgeous under direct lighting..all glittery and shiny and beautiful :)
And they aren't odd to the touch.. nothing like matthey crinkles.
m
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on May 01, 2014, 09:02:01 PM
Apart from the blue threading this one looks very similar:
ebay auction (http://www.ebay.de/itm/321394837968?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fsch%2FGlas-Kristall-%2F7478%2Fi.html%3F_sop%3D10%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D321394837968%26_rdc%3D1)
Even the dents appear to have the same shape.
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: orangeglass on May 01, 2014, 09:21:53 PM
Wow, what a stunning piece - sorry I know nothing about it - it makes me think of glaciers  / Scandinavia.

Fab pictures :D

Roberta
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on May 01, 2014, 09:34:19 PM
I'm not really seeing the similarity Dirk  :-[
I mean they are both overshot glass  but the dents don't look similar to me, though of course having dents at all I suppose is unusual  :-\
Kralik liked dents.  Maybe an avenue to explore a bit further.
Or perhaps it's just I love your piece and am not keen on the blue trailed one.
I think there is a query piece on here from Mosquito that is an overshot glass vase with amber trailing. I commented saying Kralik sprang to mine (I think) but I've a funny feeling it didn't get ratified and is still unknown.
I will try and find the thread  :)
m
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on May 01, 2014, 09:41:25 PM
see above and link here to the other piece.  I forgot it was tadpoles and trails
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,39048.msg215864.html#msg215864

I have to say, looking at it again, I don't know what I think about it.
Your original piece made me think 50/60 Czech - it reminds me a bit of my Oldrich Lipa vase.  Not in design of course, but in spirit.  It's clean, symmetrical and it has that certain 'je ne sais quoi' about it.
m
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on May 03, 2014, 05:33:39 PM
Thank you both for your comments.  :)

The piece in the ebay auction reminded me of my vase, because the texture is so similar.
Even among pieces which all use the ´overshot´ technique, the result can vary due to
e.g. the size of the frits, the way they are applied and re-heated etc.
Also the dents are rather small, defined and deep compared to some just squashed
designs on Kralik pieces. This makes me wonder if they were possibly not formed with
something like a tool, but already part of a mould these pieces were blown in.

To be honest I´m not sure if Steven´s vase in the link you provided actually deserves the
term overshot. For me it looks like it might be a different kind of technique with re-heated
crackle instead of applied frits.  ???
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: glassobsessed on November 02, 2014, 08:34:31 PM
Another example, this one clear glass: http://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t16254-clear-vase-with-crackle-broken-finish
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on November 03, 2014, 08:53:32 AM
Ah, thank you! Nice to see another example and to see confirmed the vague idea of a polished pontil
mark I seemed to have spot on mine might actually be there...  ;D
Still wondering if it´s czech...  :-\
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on November 03, 2014, 09:21:10 AM
Just an observation - on seeing this again, the first thing I thought of was that molded shaped WMF ice bucket.
Probably way off but just a thought
example is on here somewhere
but here is one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-WMF-ART-NOUVEAU-ICE-BUCKET-FROSTED-CRYSTAL-1910-ICBERG-SILVER-PLATE-RARE-/371177522895?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item566be786cf

m
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: Ivo on November 03, 2014, 09:30:23 AM
That bucket is not rare - at least not in this country. There is one on every market. And it is from the 1960s.  There are many grades of overshot, some are smooth pearls, others rough shards. This bucket is true overshot, with a rough feel to it. Keep it away from mohair sweaters.
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on November 03, 2014, 09:46:22 AM
yes there are rather a lot of the buckets around :)
I was just drawing attention to the fact that Dirk's vase reminded me of this bucket for some reason.  The 'light' way of molding where the design is not very 'sharp' if you see what I mean, and the overshot maybe. As I said perhaps a long shot but I just thought maybe 1960s German for Dirk's vase.
m
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: dirk. on November 03, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
I see what you mean, m., but without being able to name it the piece in question simply
doesn´t strike me as german. Do you know that, when you just can say no, but not why?  :-\
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: flying free on November 03, 2014, 11:42:55 PM
yes, I know what you mean :)
Title: Re: Modern overshot vase - Czech, Scandi...?
Post by: nigel benson on November 08, 2014, 02:48:10 PM

Rightly or wrongly, I keep thinking Czech and the designer, Jan Gabrhel (sp?)............ just a thought.

Nigel