Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass => Topic started by: Mike Morgan on January 21, 2014, 01:14:24 PM
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A friend listed this goblet, without knowing anything other than it's cut glass and attractive, on eBay at auction for a starting bid of $39.99. Within hours, she had been contact by four people asking her to end the auction early and allow them to buy it outright. The offers were for $600, $1750, $2750, and $4000.
She quickly relisted at a much higher opening bid, but she still doesn't know what's so special.
Any idea why? Obviously, several people recognized it quickly.
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=161204250851
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Hello Mike,I'm afraid your link goes to cars,electronics and fashion,none of which I'm any good at, ::) ;D ;D
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Is it the blue cut glass goblet.if it is i still wouldn't know. :)
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Perhaps this link might work...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161204250851?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D161204250851%26_rdc%3D1
It's taken a bit of a price hike, but is still considerably less than the $4.000 offered. ;D
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Think I might have accepted the highest offer, once I had picked myself up of the floor anyway. Sorry no idea about the glass.
John
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could it be an early Boston and Sandwich Glass goblet ??? just looking around
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J. Hoare and Co. appear to have had a thing about faceted knops and multi-scalloped foot rims back around c.1900..... ?
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J. Hoare and Co. appear to have had a thing about faceted knops and multi-scalloped foot rims back around c.1900..... ?
Good eye Paul. Boggess pg. 90 shows three catalog pages & the last page shown (bottom of page) has a vase that has a multi-scalloped foot plus has what looks to be close to identical swirl cutting on the top which then melds into what you might call regular cutting, hobstars, etc. I will say it has to be the cobalt color no matter who cut the blank because no manufacturer has a goblet that comes anywhere close to the four figure price being thrown around, however a solid cobalt blank would be pretty rare, probably a special order.
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It doesn't look cobalt to me ... well as far as my monitor shows :)
Does the vase in the catalogue have the base of the foot cut like that? And also what era would it date to please?
I'm intrigued as I would never have guessed American :-[
btw it's a beautiful goblet and gorgeous colour.
m
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I agree, it's teal rather than cobalt.
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I couldn't detect any mold lines anywhere on it so that suggests that it was hand cut and most of it is sharp enough detail that it didn't have any fire polishing or glazing done on it to smooth out the mold seams.
The expertise to cut all of those different elements is not something that many have been capable of. I do think that it could have possibly been acid polished after all the cutting to get it to appear as brilliant as it does. I agree, it appears to be emerald green as opposed to deep blue.
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I had wondered myself about acid polishing - particularly after looking at the curved columns.
Would coloured glass from the States treated in this way still be considered to be "Rock crystal cut"?
That might explain the "loadsalolly" kind of figures being bandied about. :)
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I would consider it rock crystal since I'm sure it has high lead content that allowed it to have such a nicely "polished" surface and a fairly high level of refractory. The high lead content would make it much easier to have cut and acid polished. This would possibly help with the dating of the piece.
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It doesn't look cobalt to me ... well as far as my monitor shows :)
Does the vase in the catalogue have the base of the foot cut like that? And also what era would it date to please?
I'm intrigued as I would never have guessed American :-[
btw it's a beautiful goblet and gorgeous colour.
m
Well I am slightly color blind so I guess its teal in color. The Hoare scrapbook in Boggess shows the foot cut in the same manner as the one on eBay & thats not unusual at all for U.S. ABP since more than 50% of our cutters were European who immigrated. Clark, Hoare, Maple & many other cutting operations used the european foot design. I found a Hoare vase in Croesus cutting with the twisted cuts but not as severe as the one on eBay.
What the OP should do is contact the American Cut Glass Assn. & seek guidance from them.
www.cutglass.org/
OK found something...in the Boggess color section (30 pages all unnumbered) there is a Hoare Croesus decanter which I showed to DW who is not color blind & she says it matches or comes close to matching the OPs color & while its cut to clear there is a solid connector ring (good sized) that is solid teal?
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I don't have a date for the start of commercial acid polishing for stemware in the States - but do know that it began to be used in the U.K. for use routinely, on cut glass c. 1922/23 - and could be wrong, but I suspect this goblet to have been made prior to that date. Having looked again and blowing up the pix, must admit that the cutting on the goblet doesn't look particularly sharp.
To my eyes this style of pattern/cutting wouldn't necessarily make me think of either rock crystal or ABP - doesn't appear sufficiently fussy or sinuous enough - but I don't collect States glass, so could be talking tosh :) As a guess, I'd have thought that rock crystal, by definition, would mean clear glass, rather than coloured. It may well be the colour that is ramping up the shekels.
Comparing the colour of the 'croesus' decanter (quoted by Jane Spillman as dating to c. 1890's) with this piece, there is a similarity, but the decanter appears brighter and less dense in colour - even the solid neck ring is not as dark a shade as the goblet. I'd be inclined to suggest the goblet is more blue (teal as Sue says), and the decanter looks more emerald. Looking at the cutting on the 'croesus' piece, it does have the look of ABP.
Ref. 'The American Cut Glass Industry - T. G. Hawkes and his Competitors' - Jane Shadel Spillman - 1996 - page 23.
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'The Hoare scrapbook in Boggess shows the foot cut in the same manner as the one on eBay'
I'm sorry to be pedantic :-[ ,but when you say cut in the same manner, do you mean it is exactly the same as the detailed base of the goblet?
I'm just curious as to whether the goblet could have originated from another country? Or were there cuts that were particular to a specific maker.
I have to admit I have nothing to offer as an alternative, but I was just wondering.
I should just bow out lol because I know nothing about cut glass, but I'm curious to know.
m
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Paul: Utility patent, no. 230,137, granted to George F. Latham on 20 Jul 1880. The patent application was accompanied by "specimens" but no illustrations. The year 1880 is an early date for a proposal to use acid as a polishing agent although acid polishing was relatively well established by 1890 for cut glass.
I do not have that Spillman book to compare colors against one another from Boggess, however the piece in the Boggess book color section is not emerald unless the color shown in the photo is inaccurate compared with other emerald examples shown in the color section of the book. It appears to be blue/teal according to DW & I relied on her judgement. With published color photos you never know...just ask the National Cambridge Collectors 2nd edition of their colors book where the photos are simply inaccurate as compared with actual Cambridge colors. All because somebody forgot to proof the first five copies book for photo color match/clarity which lead to the entire run being published.
M: "but when you say cut in the same manner, do you mean it is exactly the same as the detailed base of the goblet?"
No thats why I stated in the same manner as the vase in the catalog page is not large enough to provide minute details enough for me to to state "exactly"
"whether the goblet could have originated from another country?"
Absolutely & we will not know anything definative about country of origin & manufacturer origin unless OP submits picture to AGCA with the link I provided. In the meantime I was taking a shot at a possibility as Paul was close with his Hoare observation so I was investigating his lead & I am not going any further with this, its up to the OP.
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Well I see the auction has been ended as "item no longer available". Pity as I would have liked to know exactly what it was for educational purposes.
"This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available"
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Mine says there was an error in the listing.
I hope, whatever happened, that the owner receives the right price for it.
m
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A friend listed this goblet, without knowing anything other than it's cut glass and attractive, on eBay at auction for a starting bid of $39.99. Within hours, she had been contact by four people asking her to end the auction early and allow them to buy it outright. The offers were for $600, $1750, $2750, and $4000.
She quickly relisted at a much higher opening bid, but she still doesn't know what's so special.
Any idea why? Obviously, several people recognized it quickly.
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=161204250851
Ummmm. If the OP actually received these kinds of 'sell it now' offers from Ebay bidders and if they were at all serious, I cannot help but wonder why it did not sell with a starting bid of $2,750. I cannot believe such sky high numbers myself.
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why not?
I've seen coloured cut glass pieces (vases) sell far in excess of that in auctions such as Bonham's and Christie's. It depends who made it, when made and how rare, as well as the condition ...as well as on at least two buyers wanting it badly enough I guess. (I'd like to be the seller of a piece that sold so well ;D )
m
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I agree M. If it turns out to be a legit ABP rarity over here (U.S.)thats simply not out there...the skys the limit.
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It had a starting price, it wasn't a "buy it now" at that price.
I presume it sold off-site to an offer. Or had an accident!
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Thinking of the assumed origin of this goblet, and in view of the lady's knowledge of States cut glass, I mentioned this to Jane Spillman and included the link in my communication, and although we're not really any further forward, thought it would be of interest to members to see her reply.
A very big thanks to Jane Spilman for taking the time to reply, and for giving us permission to reproduce her comments here. :)
""I was able to get a very small picture of the goblet and all I can say is that I've never seen anything like it in terms of cut glass, which is what the site says it is. The fact that it is cut in such an elaborate pattern, and that it is colored, make it of interest to cut glass collectors, even though it is not identified. I would agree that it dates from 1880-1910, but that's just guesswork on my part. I doubt if it's American since it's not like any American cut glass I've seen; I would guess it's European, but I'm not positive.
So I'm afraid that I really can't help you. It's certainly an interesting piece, though.
Regards,
Jane Shadel Spillman""
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I sent this auction to two ACGA advanced members Friday. They got together & formed an opinion. Its entirely possible (and probable) this piece is from a commissioned set from the early 1900s cut in the Corning area. Commissioned custom ordered sets were extremely expensive made exclusively for wealthy individuals/families & could well be something akin to one-of-a-kind pieces in designs/colors/cuttings never to be seen again. Many of them were split apart during the Depression & sold by the piece during difficult times & truely advanced collectors do recognize some of items from the sets that are documented but its a bit of knowledge that is generally not available to your average collectors & when even a piece of one of these commissioned sets appears on the market it generates a free-for-all in the market resulting in some very hefty price realizations.
I can attest to this because 4-5 years ago a consignment firm just 5 miles away from me had a specially commissioned luncheon set consisting of 8 lunch plates, 8 bread plates, 8 waters & 8 wines on Steuben blanks cut by Hawkes. This was during the period when Hawkes started Steuben to furnish their blanks. Each piece had 6 panels & each panel had astonishing engraving depicting a different scene from Cleveland & Lake Erie, buildings, Lighthouse, ships, etc. The set was intact & this was the first time it had ever been placed on the block & it was well known & well documented.
I know the lady that owns the business very well & was stunned that each piece was priced individually & each piece was in the neighborhood of $500-$750 depending on piece. I was of the opinion (and we discussed) that this was a bit of a gamble to say the least, however she had been advised by a ABP specialist that this was the way to market this. I fully expected this strategy to fail...I was sadly mistaken as within 4 days the set was gone & sold by the piece although a couple of buyers bought one of each piece so they has the complete luncheon set.