Glass Message Board
Glass Identification - Post here for all ID requests => Glass Paperweights => Topic started by: gkep on February 17, 2014, 08:55:20 AM
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Hello I'm George a newcomer to Paperweights, I've joined your forum hoping you can offer some advice please.
I purchased this paperweight on eBay which the seller described as having "Some roughness to the centre of the body". The sellers original images did not show any of this roughness in detail. The marks go all the way round the middle surface of the weight.
To me these deep surface scratches and marks are more than just "Some roughness" to me the paperweight is seriously damaged, am I correct in this opinion?
I welcome your comments thanks in advance. ???
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Hi George
I guess it's a matter of opinion as to what some roughness means, I'd say it's had a pretty hard life but I don't see any serious chips or bruises so it could be professionally repolished for maybe £40-£50. Have you contacted the seller about it?
Nick
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Thing is, polished up, it's only worth £40 to £50 max. They aren't unusual, so I would ask to return and find one in good condition.
By the way, its a Victorian Dump paperweight by name, not a torpedo!
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if you're not happy with the purchase the best thing to do is go through ebay and start an 'item not as described' case.
This gives you 8 days to sort it out with the seller ie returning for a full refund. Don't leave the seller a negative feedback before you have tried to resolve the issue - keep it friendly and non aggressive.
All sellers want/need happy customers so if differences of opinion on condition etc occur always give them a chance to respond
The link for cases is here: http://ocsnext.ebay.co.uk/ocs/sr?search=1&query=1735&popularTool=true&st=0&popularToolName=My%20item%20doesn%27t%20match%20the%20seller%27s%20description
but you'd probably be better off getting help from the ebay community boards as it is an ebay issue so the buyers one is here: http://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Buyer-Central/bd-p/21900000767
They will be able to talk you through the process if you find it a bit daunting :-)
- Hope its ok to say this mods - if not - delete, delete.
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Thanks for all your replies much appreciated, I know I've been had, the seller claims he couldn't have done any more to show the extent of the damage!!! Which annoys me a bit, but I'm more annoyed with myself for buying it in the first place (lesson learnt).
If his eBay pictures had detailed sharp close ups of the (Damage) scratches and marks, myself and ten others certainly wouldn't have bothered bidding. Instead he chose to show blurred images on a bright background and write a vague "Some roughness" none detailed description.
He hasn't seen my sharper detailed pictures yet, but it looks like I'll be going up the Resolution Centre road.
At least I've found a great glass forum. Thanks for the advice again
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Good news! I sent the seller my detailed pictures of the damaged areas and he's agreed to give me a refund, saying he appreciates that it's worse than I imagined from the listing.
Thanks again
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if you're not happy with the purchase the best thing to do is go through ebay and start an 'item not as described' case.
This gives you 8 days to sort it out with the seller ie returning for a full refund. Don't leave the seller a negative feedback before you have tried to resolve the issue - keep it friendly and non aggressive.
All sellers want/need happy customers so if differences of opinion on condition etc occur always give them a chance to respond
The link for cases is here: http://ocsnext.ebay.co.uk/ocs/sr?search=1&query=1735&popularTool=true&st=0&popularToolName=My%20item%20doesn%27t%20match%20the%20seller%27s%20description
but you'd probably be better off getting help from the ebay community boards as it is an ebay issue so the buyers one is here: http://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Buyer-Central/bd-p/21900000767
They will be able to talk you through the process if you find it a bit daunting :-)
- Hope its ok to say this mods - if not - delete, delete.
This is the worst advice I have ever seen. Doing this is the single most annoying thing for any decent seller. If you have a problem, however small, the courteous thing to do is to mail a seller and ask them what they can do about it. Even ebay says you should do this first. Logging SNAD's, reporting issues, anything like that is a last resort and is there to protect a buyer if they come across a seller who refuses to listen, respond or deal with a problem.
As you will see, you asked your seller nicely, and they responded well, which 95% of sellers will do. I do always laugh at sellers who say no returns, or sold as seen. Paypal will side on the buyers side without even thinking about it and refund any item when you can prove you have returned it. So, never return anything by anything other than tracked mail!
Ian
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Hi Ian, I asked the seller three times for a refund because of the surface marks etc, but he claimed the damage was clearly shown in his pictures (which it wasn't) but he was prepared to give me a £10 refund as a goodwill gesture which I couldn't except.
My next step would have been the Resolution Centre.
It was only when he'd seen my detailed close-up pictures (last night) that he agreed that I may have been misled by his pictures in the listings so agreed to a refund.
George
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George, you have one of the 5% of bad sellers. It doesn't mean you should annoy the good 95%!
How much did you pay for it?
What annoys me about SNAD's is that Paypal/ebay expect you to pay the return postage. I really don't get why a buyer should end up out of pocket for the postage if a seller is at fault.......
Ian
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Ian, it was £37.
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Good ones, with maybe some scratches, should do around £50, bad ones £20 to £30. They almost always have lots of scratches and multiple bruises because they are after all doorstops and around 100 years old!
If you wanted it as a doorstop then at £27 with the refund then I think it's fine.
Ian
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Using the correct channels with eBay and going through their resolution system so there is a record of all correspondence when there is a problem is always preferable to having your dsr's and feedback trashed by a disgruntled buyer. Contacting the seller privately leaves you with no evidence of who said what to whom.
I standby what I said.
and I'm pleased you got it sorted out
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Surely it is as easy to contact the seller through ebay's own messaging system?
You can have a one-to-one correspondence with them, but the records of everything said will still be on ebay for later, if you need proof later.
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I use a couple of these Victorian green glass dumps as door stops - they work very well. Mine have big chunks missing, but that does not affect how well they do the job. If you want a perfect example to sit on a shelf as an 'object d'art', you may have to search around...and pay top prices.
Alan
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I got my refund back today, in the past 12 months the seller has sold 829 items with only 2 negative feedbacks, I was going to leave neutral feedback mentioning his prompt refund etc but now feel a bit guilty about spoiling his good track record.
Shall I give negative or just no feedback?
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A negative is unwarranted, given you got a prompt refund.
Neutral, with a mention of the prompt refund, would not really spoil their record - if somebody was searching the feedback, they'd home in on the neutrals and negatives, and a neutral which mentions the refund is not a bad thing.
Or just leave no feedback.
What have they given you? Have they given feedback?
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Have to disagree. The seller has given the refund and resolved the problem without much if any problem. Even a Neutral is a negative in the eyes of a buyer, so leaving either is really bad in my opinion.
As for immediately using the SNAG or reporting a problem. The ebay guidelines CLEARLY state you should only use that as a last resort and to contact the seller via the messaging system first. So BFG, No, you are wrong, even ebay say you are.
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;)
Maybe I'm more forgiving of neutrals. I always read all the responses and try to give the sellers and buyers the benefit of the doubt.
I know there are bad on both sides.
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I have no intention of entering into a slanging match over this.
Contacting the seller through ebay about an item not as described will automatically open a case. It is not escalated until 8 days later if both buyer & seller cannot reach a mutual agreement
I refer you to ebays help page I posted above, here:
http://ocsnext.ebay.co.uk/ocs/sr?search=1&query=1735&popularTool=true&st=0&popularToolName=My%20item%20doesn%27t%20match%20the%20seller%27s%20description
and in particular this paragraph:
1.
If you haven't already, contact the seller through My eBay or the Resolution Centre to let them know that you haven't received the item or it doesn't match the seller's description. This will open a case so that we can help you track the issue.
This was a buyer who joined our forum to seek help over an ebay problem purchase. They were disappointed with the transaction which was why I posted the help page link and also the link to the buyers community help board on ebay
As they had posted here it seemed to me they needed this information and to be reassured they hadn't lost their money or been 'conned'
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Hi .
Some crossed wires here re the interpretations of ebay guidelines , I visited an Item I had just bought,clicked on the sellers ID which gave me the opportunity to contact the seller, clicking contact , , then asked to select topic , I selected not as described,
up comes " What can I do about an item that's damaged, defective, not as expected or has missing parts?"
" You should first contact the seller to try to reach a solution or let them know that you'd like to return the item. Most sellers want to help their buyers resolve any problems with the transaction.
" Remember that your purchase is covered by eBay Money Back Guarantee. If the seller doesn't respond or isn't able to help resolve the problem to your satisfaction within 8 calendar days, you can escalate and open a case with Customer Support.
within 8 days !!!!!
so contacting the seller does not automatically open a case , and as eBay advises you should first try and resolve the problem with the seller.
cheers ,
Peter.
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Yes, this is what I am saying.
An open case isn't escalated to ebay resolution until 8 days after opening it and then only after no agreement has been arrived at between buyer / seller
Peter, if you had gone one step further and hit the send button you would have received a message along the lines of 'thank you for opening a not as described case, the seller will be in contact shortly'
It has caught many buyers out, opening cases when all they really wanted to do was discuss the item
Edited to add: That sounds like cases open against me........not guilty ;)
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Hi ,
Oh dear Confucius rules,
I didn't continue at that point because you are supposed to take eBay's advise and contact the seller in my eBay messaging system to try and resolve your problem with the buyer first , if this is unsuccessful you then open a case.
and yes it has caught many out but through a lack of understanding and clarity in eBay's instructions
if instead of selecting item not as described , you chose "other" then you can contact the seller without any case being opened , this should be the first line of approach, not to open a case .
cheers ,
Peter.
ps I have never sold on eBay only bought.
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yes, you can use 'other' to not open a case. however, ebay are quite clear in their guidelines and expect the buyer to use the correct channels ie item not as described under these circumstances.
I both buy and sell on ebay
We will have to agree to disagree on this one I think. I'm bowing out now.....am being taken out to dinner :-)
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HI ,
Yes the guidelines are perfectly clear,
You should first contact the seller to try to reach a solution,
then,
If the seller doesn't respond or isn't able to help resolve the problem to your satisfaction within 8 calendar days, you can escalate and open a case with Customer Support.
cheers ,
Peter.
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You are missing the point Peter, the case is already open and you then have 8 days to escalate it.
As a seller I find it annoying that the first I hear about a buyers problem is through an open case, if there has been a problem (usually a packaged delayed in the post) an open case with all of ebay and paypal draconian responses - freezing funds in paypal and dire warnings about compliance with ebays policies is not helpful. A simple message through ebay to inform and ask for help would be a much better course of action, buyers can open a case many weeks after a sale, they do not need to hurry down that route.
Ebay has had a problem of reputation due to poor sellers and there have been plenty of them, many with a poor track record have been kicked off ebay recently. Buyers also have to be aware of who they are buying from - are they experienced and or a professional seller? When I am buying I look to see if the seller is experienced with glass. If an items condition is important or I am not sure about the sellers description I attempt to ask pertinent questions, you can judge a lot from the responses.
My biggest problem selling has been from buyers who did not understand what they were buying, that for example glass made a hundred and fifty years ago is not like modern machine made glass and utterly blemish free.
John
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Hi ,
" You are missing the point Peter, the case is already open and you then have 8 days to escalate it."
Missing the point, I don't think so , yes in this instance a case was opened , my point is that it should NOT have been opened , and am actually agreeing with you that a simple message to the seller in most instances will resolve any problems without the need to open a case.
cheers ,
Peter.
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Sorry Peter. We are (well I am anyway) getting a bit off topic here, liable to end up in the cafe at this rate...
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I have read all this with interest and there is one point I would like to home in on, and that is the question of return postage.
If I have a complaint about a purchase, I always go to 'Other' to contact them first, send a polite but firm message saying the item is not as described and would like a refund. I then go on to say that if the seller would like it returned, then I am very happy to do so, but only at the sellers cost as it is not my fault that the item needs to be returned.
I always use the eBay message system and if they reply by email, I copy and paste their email reply into the eBay message system, saying I will only correspond this way and that I hope they will be honourable enough to refund me within the next 8 days.
This usually elicits a refund, most don't want a return, those that do will need to either put the money in my PayPal account before I will post it, and remind them I am sending it 'Signed For'. Otherwise they will have to escalate the case themselves, in which case, eBay have access to all the correspondence and will see I have said I will return it at their cost.
To date, have never had a problem, the two items that were returned were both return postage paid by the seller.
The message here really is 'Clear Communication'...
Tell the seller what is wrong
Ask what he will do about it.
Offer to return at their cost.
Only open a case as a last resort.
If they refund and pay return postage, I always leave positive feedback, even if only to say 'Transaction completed satisfactorily.'
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I'm afraid someone expecting me to refund before they return it isn't going to find that happening! Neither Paypal or ebay offer a seller any protection. Their T&Cs say it needs to be returned by a tracked method of postage and then a refund will be issued once the item can be verified as delivered. Otherwise a seller leaves themselves open to having refunded, but never getting the item back. There are people who use this and try this as a scam to get a refund and keep the item.
Any decent seller will refund postage return costs if they are at fault, but I will take a refund for any reason but not refund the return postage cost if it isn't my fault.......
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I doubt very much that you would need to have anything returned because it is not as described, pooleandpaperweights, your reputation is impeccable, but not all are.
However, you have to pay for the item before it is posted to you, so the same courtesy should be given to the person returning it.
I have used this method since 2007 and always had either a refund from the seller with return postage added as a separate PayPal amount (you cannot refund a greater sum than the original price and postage) or a refund from eBay and the seller declining a return.
A recent case in point was a digital phone sold with the wrong base... a full refund from eBay and a message saying I did not need to return the item.
E Bay is getting fairer, and I often phone their helpline to speak to a member of staff before continuing with the claim.
One French seller insisted the item was returned, the tone of his message was very aggressive, and eBay issued me a refund immediately, giving me an extra £20 for the return postage, but adding that I was not obliged to return the item as the seller had not agreed to issue a refund. As the recorded postage was going to be far in excess of the £20, I decided to keep the item until the seller sent me the difference... he never did.
All that said, when an item is purchased and says there is some damage, it is a good idea to ask for extra pictures so that an informed decision can be made as to whether or not to make a purchase.
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Just to recap regarding the green weight.
After having to ask for a refund three times over three days with the buyer telling me the damage was plain for me to see etc etc he only agreed to my refund after I sent him my own detailed pictures of the damage that he failed to accurately describe or show in his listings, I thought it only fair to leave polite neutral feedback "Item not as expected but full refund given."
He then left me positive feedback with a negative comment!!! "Blocked" (now removed by eBay) but still giving the impression to other buyers in his own feedback profile, leaving a comment making me look like a problem buyer, instead of course making him look like a problem seller! I've responded to the comment, but find it unfair that ebay can't remove these comments as well?
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You found one of the rogue sellers. Hope you've neg'd him.......
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ebay will remove the sellers comments if they are not positive (and therefore break ebay's rules). You will need to phone them and ask them to remove the feedback.
John