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Glass Discussion & Research. NO IDENTIFICATION REQUESTS here please. => British & Irish Glass => Topic started by: flying free on March 26, 2014, 11:42:09 PM
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I love these pieces. They need to be lit and show at their best under evening lighting. There is something really ethereal about them because of the way they are made and the recipe for the colour I think. The alabaster 'attachments' are the very best, slightly greyish, slightly translucent, perfect.
They are my favourites of all the opalines, next only to early French opaline glass 'gorge de pigeon'.
The green is a pale green. I've only found or seen one other in this lidded cup shape. It's in the book (in Rose), although Manley also shows the cup without a lid.
The turquoise is marked on the bottom and is a beautiful colour.
As is the mauve bowl, which could be Puce (mauve) or Violet (pale mauve pink) according to The Crystal Years.
The green has the foot applied in alabaster and also has alabaster thinly cased part way up the cup. The same with the turquoise vase. But the part casing is done differently to a rose cordial I had where the stem almost appeared to be part of the bowl because the casing was drawn up over the base of the bowl. On both of these two pieces you can see where the foot is applied but they both also have a fine thin part alabaster casing part way.
The mauve bowl is made in three parts.
It's fairly unusual to find marked Stevens and Williams pieces although they do come up. The mark on my vase is not shown on either Great Glass or the Style site under their marks. But it is the same as the one in CH British Glass 1800-1914, page 449.
CH says of the mark in the book
'15. Faint acid etched mark with the fleur-de-lys between the initials S W on a slender green alabaster vase with white alabaster foot, late 19th century, in the Broadfield House Collections. Height 5/8 in. 1.7cm'
The Crystal Years discusses the Alabaster range for the years 1914 and 1916 but no start date is given.
Charles Hajdamach also says in 20th Century British Glass that 'Bath Powder Bowls' first appear in the pattern books in 1919.
I've taken two pictures to show the different effects of lighting on these pieces :)
m
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I love this type of glass....
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:)
Adding a picture of my Stevens and Williams rose cordial to show how the alabaster is cased up the stem on these and the difference in colour between the Rose and the mauve (Puce or Violet)
m
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Yummy.... :-)
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I agree, they are delicious and rather unreal in some ways - I do envy you the green lidded piece - very tasty. They aren't common, and appear very rarely in the sort of outlets I visit, which rather contradicts R. S. Williams-Thomas comments that "........must have been exceedingly popular - so much so that there are hundreds of specimens around the country" - perhaps Keith has most of them ;)
According to the book, green continued to be made until 1938.
Could be wrong but get the impression that 'rose' turns up most often, and think I've yet to see a piece of the orange.
I think this product could be a good investment for the future, plus it's wonderful to look at - great pieces m :)
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sorry, should have given details of the reference source............
'THE CRYSTAL YEARS - A tribute to the Skills and Artistry of STEVENS & WILLIAMS - ROYAL BRIERLEY CRYSTAL' - R. S. Williams-Thomas - 1983.
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John (glassobsessed) had some orange
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I believe the'orange' is the colour Cinammon. (see The Crystal Years page 25) where there is one cup without it's saucer and the author says it is Cinammon. There has been one other cup and saucer in this colour for sale as well.
And as Christine says, John had a piece which I failed to buy ::)
Manley shows an 'orange vase' on page 64 which I also believe is Cinammon, as is the set that's been for sale for a while in Australia of 8 stemmed bowls and underplates, being sold as 'apricot'.
Reading the text in The Crystal Years my opinion is that they made a variety of different shapes and there was a range of colours
but in terms of quantity I think this Alabaster range is fairly limited.
The Crystal Years was written in the 80's and he says there were 'hundreds' of pieces of this Alabaster range around the country ... as though this indicated there were prolific quantities. But it's not at all prolific when you think there were c.20million households in the country in 1981!(source Social Trends 40 - Households and Families - Office for National Statistics) and there are c26million now.
Certainly there are some colours/shapes I would like to get my hands on, as well as at least one of the very large (11" tall and 9 3/4" tall) lidded jars or vases in 20th Century British Glass ;D, that I have never seen for sale.
m
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Great photos M,
Paul; I've only got two pieces but the Custard factory is on soon so.... ;D
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Lovely Keith ! I think your green cup and saucer are the same green as my lidded cup, except yours are not part cased in the alabaster, which is what gives the lidded cup it's yellowish tinge to the green :)
m
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The small green piece I think was a posy vase rather than a drinking glass.
The depth of orange varies with thickness, each of the plates and the saucer had a polished pontil mark in the opaque 'white' section (if that makes any sense).
The two lidded pots (powder bowls?) are big at six inches in diameter and the green jar is nine inches tall.
John
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ooh la la.
Very glamorous.
m
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I have now had to place saran wrap over the keyboard so as to prevent the drool from causing problems.....
Craig
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For what it is worth, The connection between Stevens & Williams, and Frederick Carder's later career in the US at Steuben is certainly reflected in some of Steuben's production. Here is a Steuben Rosaline bowl with an alabaster foot.
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Also very beautiful :)
m
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two of the best reasons for desiring something - beauty and rarity - and these pieces have both in abundance. Thanks to everyone for showing their collections. :)
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John, am I thinking of someone else - did you not have a Cinammon vase at some point?
m
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No not me m, I did have a few more of the posy vases like the green one, 2 in blue and 2 more in orange, or is it apricot?
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no I think the colour is actually called Cinammon (but I could be wrong) but yes, that's the two I was thinking of :)
m
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Just found the photo.
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dammit ;D yes they are the ones. And yes, I believe the colour is Cinammon.
Thanks! nice to see them.
m
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I had culled that photo from my computer but there was still a copy in my Picasa drop box. 8)
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Pics showing the green lidded cup with a jade green alabaster powder bowl
m
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Sorry meant to say, if you right click on the pics above and then click on open link in new tab, they will come up full sized :)
m
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with ref my original post re my green lidded cup, this one I think is Rose alabaster lidded cup most likely shown in the Stevens and Williams book 'The Crystal Years'
This is a lovely photograph of it (the pic in the book is very bad)
http://www.bridgemanart.com/en-GB/asset/6472//alabaster-glass-mug-and-stoppered-bottle-made-by-stevens-and-williams-c-1920
m
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beautiful - the most magenta looking alabaster lidded cup I've seen :)
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It looks as though the colours have been saturated in that photo, they are so intense, the background is a bit pinkish too - usually a clue.
Anyway, I assume the following vase is S&W too as the colour matches the green pot, a big old beast at almost 30cm (12") tall.
John
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The colour intensity depends on how illuminated/angle of lighting and whether or not the piece is cased in my opinion.
My pink cordial was utterly amazing. (see link) I also have a powder bowl that is quite incredible, so much so that I thought it must the colour Dragon's blood rather than Rose :)
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,56212.msg318435.html#msg318435
Lovely vase John. If it is S&W they did a beautiful job of casing the alabaster up the stem over the jade. Really super piece.
m
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This is a Rose small goblet - it replaced my cordial I regretted selling.
The special bit about this one (for me), is I've not seen another with a stem like this :)
m
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Thrilled to be able to get this pink condiment :)
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Very nice, see very little locally off to the 'Custard Factory' tomorrow so I've got my fingers crossed, ;D ;D
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Good luck tomorrow in finding some nice pieces.
It's interesting that you don't see much even locally (if ykwim). There are bits and pieces around but none that I 'need' at the mo.
It doesn't come up that often. I checked some past relevant auction sales and in one or two there are no alabaster pieces in at all.
m
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Thanks m, I'm afraid it was a waste of time, not a sausage as they say ! happy though as my new piece of 'Foundry' glass arrived today, ;D ;D
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Treated myself for Christmas, this looks like the Victorian 1880's acid stamp.
12 inches in height.
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That is very strange, what would you use it for, amazing the lid is still with it, bit green now, ::) ;D ;D ;D
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Dear All,
two apricot cordials to add to our S&W Alabaster menagerie.
Any thoughts on the large green and white alabaster vase? S&W? Usual ground pontil, appropriate base wear etc. :)
Kind regards
Andrew
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Chris, re your post no 33
'Treated myself for Christmas, this looks like the Victorian 1880's acid stamp.'
Can you tell where you found the source for that date please?
Thanks :)
m
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It's in the back of Charles Hajdamach British glass, "the mark found on a piece of Victorian alabaster" I'm nowhere near the book at the minute, so not sure of the page number or if the quote is right.
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thanks - just to clarify your comment then if that is ok so we can keep dates accurate to sources :)
In CH British Glass 1800-1914 on page 449 it says
' Stevens and Williams Marks
14. ....
15. Faint acid etched mark with the fleur-de-lis between the initials S W on a slender green alabaster vase with white alabaster foot, late 19th century, in the Broadfield House Collections. Height 5/8in (1.7cm) '
I believe the height reference is the height of the mark as only the mark is shown.
So the reference date is 'late 19th century' if that is the one you are referring to?
m
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Yes that's the quote sounds about right. The vase feels and looks Victorian I can't see it being Art Deco, I've got 488 pieces of Victorian glass now, the decorative type, does not include wine glasses etc Not sure if this answers your question though.
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yes it does. I'm wondering where the vase is that CH references in that book.
The book says the mark was found on a slender green alabaster vase with a white alabaster foot, in the Broadfield House Collections. I couldn't find anything similar searching the collection online.
m
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Well my vase has no wear around the upper rim, Keith is right it's a wonder there still together, with out the lid it looks like a vase, like David said a while ago on a S&W hyacinth I put on here that should of had a lozenge mark, after a certain time limit they don't need to be put on, then a lot of things are only signed if there firsts, take into account there 140 odd years old now and glass they reduce in number and rarety and finding information on some pieces is impossible.
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Well, I suppose I think it might be that the vase referred to in the early CH British Glass 1800-1914 book as having that mark, is a Stevens and Williams alabaster range vase (of which I believe there are two tall slender examples in Manley's Victorian Decorative Glass and the range is made in green and white) and I think that range launched in 1916. I wonder if that is why the vase isn't included in his early book but is in the later book. So I think it could be that that mark was not found on a Victorian piece of glass but on a piece made between 1916 and the 1930s(green alabaster was made up until the 1930s)?
Also the Stevens and Williams pattern books are in the Broadfield House collection... I just haven't got time or opportunity unfortunately to go up to the archives to have a look around. And there are something like 30, 000 patterns iirc.
I have a fairly large collection of Stevens and Williams alabaster pieces including four/five very rare pieces and only one or two out of the whole collection are marked with that mark, nearly all have no mark at all. I think S&W were very sporadic in their marking of any pieces not for any particular reason, just that they didn't bother to mark on a consistent basis.
So I suppose what I'm mooting is that perhaps that mark doesn't belong to a Victorian piece and perhaps your covered pot is later than you think. Admittedly, the knop is different to that found on the alabaster covered powder jars and mustard pot I own where the knop has a polished 'pontil' mark on the top of it.
m
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You could be right, there is a bit of guess work in Cyril Manleys book, it's a shame because i bet a lot of whats in there is right, i had number 34 it had blue snakes around the bottom half highly decorated and looked Bohemian, it got smashed. In one of the first posts the little green vase number 85 in Cyril Manleys book i found a set of six green one's in a charity chop, i sold four and kept two, now why would anyone buy six vases the same colour which makes me think there for drinking.
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I think my post was misunderstood and badly written. I wasn't referring to errors in Cyril Manley's book.
I was saying that in Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 where he shows that mark and says it is 'on a slender green alabaster vase with white alabaster foot, late 19th century', I think an error might have been made on his dating:
a) He doesn't actually show the vase in that book. But there is a tall slender alabaster with white alabaster foot vase produced by Stevens and Williams as part of their alabaster range (there are two examples shown in the Manley book and a seller currently has two tall slender vases in other colours for sale in the 'alabaster' range) ... and that range did come in green and white as we know.
b) Hajdamach says in his second book 'self-coloured glass, as it is often known in the factories, was introduced by Stevens and Willliams in the form of their 'alabaster' range as early as 1916 ....'
So I think it is possible that the mark that CH refers to 'might' have appeared on a tall green and white slender 'alabaster' range vase from S&W.
And since the 'alabaster' range was introduced in 1916 that would mean that mark was on a 1916 or later vase ... not a late Victorian one.
Yes, it's possible those little 'vases' might have been 'beakers'. On the other hand, they are very small (narrow at top) for drinking out of, and it is possible that they were supplied to shops in 'batches' so it's possible that a 'batch' or part of a batch of 'vases' , were unsold or sold on when a shop closed I guess.
Interestingly, I often see that mark on the pale blue and white versions of S & W 'alabaster' range pieces (and my pale blue one is marked). And I've seen it marked on two pieces of the cinnamon versions as yours is. I sometimes wonder if it means anything in terms of when the colours were introduced, or perhaps in the method of making, or perhaps in terms of date made.
m
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I will keep my eye out for others, im 75% sure I have that mark on something other than alabaster, I'm in the process of sorting stuff out so if I come across it I'll put it on here.
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Regardiing M's post #44, for anyone trying to locate the examples of S&W alabaster in the 1988 edition of the Manley book, please note that there is an indexing error.
The S&W items (nos 84 to 90) are all shown on page 64 with text on page 65 - but the index entry for "alabaster" does not refer to those pages, only the pages for Richardson items!
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I have a question -
Hajdamach says in his second book 'Self-coloured glass, as it is often known in the factories, was introduced by Stevens and Willliams in the form of their 'alabaster' range as early as 1916 . ...'
I'm curious. Does this mean that glass coloured in the batch is 'self coloured' glass ? as opposed to a clear gather being cased in a thin layer of coloured glass to create the 'perceived' coloured glass item.
I assume it does mean that.
In which case, does his sentence mean that the 'alabaster' range was self-coloured and therefore he is simply pointing this out and then saying that the (self-coloured) 'alabaster' range was introduced as early as 1916.
Or does it mean that 'self-coloured' glass was first introduced in 1916 and as it happened it was in the form of their 'alabaster' range?
m
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I think it's a badly written sentence, as self-coloured glass has been around much longer - you only have to read the old recipes...
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yes, and I had presumed their cameo, although cased glass, had a base glass of self coloured glass.
I was just wondering if there are any examples of Stevens and Williams 'self-coloured' glass made before this? I seem to come across a lot of information on cup casing and flashing and examples of how they flashed even goblets etc.
m
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Just as an example, this is a marked Stevens and Williams cameo vase and it appears to have an inner white layer, cased with a thin yellow layer and then the brown on top to create a brown on yellow perceived vase.
The top rim and the base photos show the yellow over white
http://eronjohnsonantiques.com/products/g0659-english-stevens-and-williams-cameo-glass-vase
I've no idea if all the other examples were made like this though or were self coloured base glass.
And this is a marked Mat-su-noke vase in pink with clear flowers. The pontil mark has a strawberry prunt on it. It looks a bit see through at the pontil mark. I wonder if this pink was (red/pink?) cased over white to create the pink colour and then in clear or something?
http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/180816/stevens-williams-matsunoke-vase/
I do wonder if it is possible that all previous work was cased somehow to create the colours but that the 'alabaster' range was the first range to use colour mixed in the batch?
m
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http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH201/
So the one on this link would be an example of self-coloured glass? where the base is red gathered from a red batch?
If so, and his comment is meant in reference only to the introduction of the 'alabaster' range, then he is quite specific about the 'alabaster' range being introduced as early as 1916.
Therefore if (and I have no corroboration for this assertion), the S& W fleur de lis England mark that he shows was on a green and white alabaster vase then it might be that the date as 'late Victorian' was incorrect. Or my query is completely incorrect and it would mean that Stevens and Williams produced a 'slender green alabaster vase with a white alabaster foot' in the late Victorian period, but I guess it didn't fall into the 'alabaster' range he asserts was introduced as early as 1916.
R.S. Williams Thomas does refer to the '1914 alabaster period' .
m
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Dear All,
found this rather large Rose Bowl 6.75" Diameter 7.5" high.
It's foot is different than other pieces I have. Is this familiar to others?
Kind Regards
Andrew
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Looks good to me, here's one of mine.. ;D ;D
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Can you please post a side on photograph showing the profile of the pot? Thanks.
I have some very curious pieces of S&W alabaster. I wonder if some of them were produced at much different time periods to others i.e. for examples those produced c.1916 v 1930s hence the marked differences in making/shapes.
m
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Dear Keith and FF,
thanks.
Here's a side profile picture. :)
Kind Regards
Andrew
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I think that foot is quite 'thirties' ? As I said, I do wonder if shapes changed a little to reflect changing eras.
Rose (and green Jade? open to correction here as have no time to check book) were still being produced into the thirties iirc.
Love the little pot - really shows off the gorgeous intense red-pink colour. One of my boxes has an interior that is superbly coloured like that.
m